Here’s what’s on Google’s home page on May 16, 2009:
Over 28,000 children drew doodles for our homepage.
Vote for the one that will appear here!
Test yourself: Can you find the two grammar errors?
The answer is here but no peeking!
Google grammar test
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I like “more than” better than “over” here. But I think “which” rather than “that” is wrong.
While probably correct in this instance, “which” is a word that sounds pretentious nowadays, which means it is not long for common parlance. Then again, grammarians as a class seem to forget that language is a living social construct that evolves over time. I love grammar disputes!
For “Those are grammar errors” read “Those are _not_ grammar errors”
These are some skilled kindergardeners
I don’t agree with the AP stylebook on the use of ‘that’ versus ‘which’ in this instance; indeed, I think I’ve read an equally pedantic book that prescribes, “that,” for such uses, but I don’t have it on hand. I agree that, “more than,” is better than, “over,” in this case, but noöne will struggle to understand what Google meant by it.
I was, misguidedly, a linguistics major as an undergraduate and the notion that language should be described as it is spoken, which is, “prescriptivism,” and not judged by a rigid set of rules, which is, “prescriptivism,” was a chief tenet of the discipline. The particular rules are necessarily arbitrary as languages change constantly and no particular point in a language’s history, the pidgin stage of some perhaps excepted, is any better than another.
I believe “drew” should be “drawed”
I’m a copy editor. I would write the first sentence using “more than” instead of “over,” but that’s an issue of style rather than of grammar. I’d rewrite the second sentence as something more like “Vote here for the one you want to appear.” The entire structure of the second sentence is problematic, but changing “that” to “which” would not be correct and actually would make the sentence worse.
I agree with commenters who noted that the AP Style guide does not dictate grammar, and that the blogger you refer to is wrong about the “that/which” rule. What dictates the choice between “that” and “which” grammar-wise is whether the clause that follows is dependent or independent. Here it is dependent so it should absolutely be “that.” Tyler, check yr facts before reblogging!
I also think “that” is preferable to “which.” “That” is a restrictive clause, and “which” is nonrestrictive. A particular doodle is being set aside from all the others for publication, so “that” seems appropriate.
The answer is here but no peeking!
Can you find the one grammatical error in the only non-quoted portion of this post? The answer is here, but no peeking!
Because I’m an insane person, I’m spending way to much time today reading all the comments in the universe about my grammar post. But look, it is paying off. Because Kevin T’s comment in this string (above) is SO interesting. And it makes me think that perfect grammar is impossible, and it’s like a puzzle. And I would never have thought of his comment, but I like how his comment makes me think.
Penelope
Isn’t the use of “one” in the second sentence ambiguous?
I agree with Chris. Am I voting for the child or the doodle? Which will appear on the homepage?
Ditto above re grammar/style.
Did anyone look at the cloying finalist drawings? I’m way more sympathetic to juvenile pacifism/environmentalism than the typical MR commenter, but if I see one more rainbow I will fwow up. They seem to have weeded out anything subversive or funny.
Oh chrissammighty. This only demonstrates that the AP stylebook is idiotic on at least two points.
Which is typical of stylebooks and the kind of slavish grammar rules the blogger seems to admire.
i.e. everyone already knows, right, about the split-infinitive silliness?
And everyone knows about Churchill’s margin-scribbled comment in response to an editor correcting a sentence-ending preposition?
If not, go learn. Extrapolate from those lessons.
And while you’re out there, run don’t walk to read Pinker’s chapter on language mavens in The Language Instinct.
I third the commenters asking why, for the love of the FSM, you keep linking to this woman’s blog.
What is the deadweight loss due to excessive grammar policing and discussion?
And for my money, nothing in that example is confusing. You could argue that ‘one’ is ambiguous.
Penelope Trunk is on crack. Like many would-be grammar pedants she doesn’t know the difference between grammar and style. The fact that both of these “errors” is in the “AP Stylebook” should be a clue.
Nothing in standard English grammar prevents “over” from being used in front of a number. For example, no one would say that it is a grammatical error to say “To see this movie you must be over 18″. In fact, you have to say “over” there. If you say “more than” you would have to say “more than 18 years old” or similar.
The question was alright, but the answer was very lame! For someone who claims to love grammar, the best he could come up with were a couple of stylistic things?
Some of the comments here have suggested some real grammatical errors, and my inclination was also along those lines.
Read all of the above posts, one by one. And you can understand why I’m in the MA econ program after two years as an editor.
I agree with others who’ve said these are not really grammar issues. They’re usage quibbles.
“Online voting is now closed and we are tallying up your votes.”
should be
“Online voting is now closed, and we are tallying up your votes.”
“In the world, all kinds of different people have a favorite song because there is so many different types of music.”
should be
“In the world, all kinds of different people have a favorite song because there are so many different types of music.”
and of course
“The answer is here but no peeking!”
should be
“The answer is here, but no peeking!”
Well said, Nicole! I wish all of my copy editors had your common sense.
To expand just slightly: the problem with “Vote for the one that will appear here” is not that the ‘that’ should be a ‘which’. (The clause is much more naturally read as restrictive than non-restrictive, so the standard ‘prescriptivist’ line is that it ought to be ‘that’.) The problem is that in neither case does the sentence mean what its author was trying to say. The sensible response to the command, “Vote for the one that will appear here” is, “But I don’t know which one will appear there!”
Looks like this post got some notice from Language Log (the major blog for linguistics, if you don’t know it): http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=1444
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