2. Old people in Toyotas: the data, the truth.
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The Toyota age data suggest that driver error contributed to the fatalities, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the mechanical problem didn’t also contribute. It could be that more skilled drivers were better able to handle the mechanical failure and prevent the incident from becoming fatal.
There is historical precedence for the kind of services Dutch nurses are being asked to perform:
The first British vibrator was manufactured by Weiss in the early 1880s and it had several interchangeable ‘vibratodes’…These devices were operated by doctors, which medicalised the process and made it entirely proper. But more importantly, the medical paradigm for millennia had been that women’s sexual pleasure involves penetration. A bit of rubbing by a doctor was perfectly acceptable because it didn’t involve putting anything in the vagina.
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/article4032852.ece
As I said in the other thread, there’s one simple point here that seems important.
If the age distribution of Toyota drivers involved in these accidents differs significantly from the age distribution of drivers of other makes involved in accidents (allowing for distribution of ownership, etc.) then that pretty clearly refutes the idea that there’s nothing wrong with Toyotas.
Now, it might be that a careful look at the data would not reveal such a difference. But these alleged “analyses,” contra Tyler, really prove nothing.
Nor, by the way, does the fact that the Audi problem may have been non-existent prove that this one is.
I say the burden of proof has been shifted.
Shifted? Nice word choice, Tyler, but I think the burden of proof was always on those alleging a problem. The issue is whether the data in the LA Times disproves the allegation.
Usually, when we see something unusual in the statistics we conclude that something odd is going on. That is, speaking informally, we “reject the null.”
So here we see a disproportionate number of accidents involving elderly drivers. Shouldn’t we conclude something odd is (might be) going on? Sure, the data in the LA Times article isn’t that reliable. Possibly some of those reporting the acceleration problem are using it as an excuse, intentionally or not. But why would elderly people be particularly inclined to do this? And it’s also possible that some incidents that caused no harm went unreported. But whatever the quaity of the data, it is Toyota’s defenders who are using it to make their argument, so I don’t see how they can simultaneously claim it’s bad data and that it proves their point.
Also, it’s worth noting that Toyota has admitted that there is some sort of problem with the accelerator pedal.
There are short, old liars driving all types of cars. Unless there is a disproportionate number of old, short liars driving Toyota vehicles, a disproportionate number of people are being injured in a Toyota indicates a problem that should be investigated.
Yes. And it certainly does not indicate that there is no problem.
Megan McArdle and Frank Ted are overly concerned about potential lawsuits.
It has always seemed me that many of the same people who are eager to talk about the evils of our tort system are also ready to claim that the threat of lawsuits is an effective substitute for government regulation in many instances.
“There is historical precedence for the kind of services Dutch nurses are being asked to perform”
The much more modern precedent is that prostitution is already somewhat linked with health care in the Netherlands. The idea is that sex is a human right and part of basic mental health, so the Dutch government subsidizes prostitutes for the disabled. This is also the case in Denmark, and it’s on the radar in Belgium, Switzerland, and Germany.
And not to add fire to the health care debate, but an article this month in the Journal of Medical Ethics goes so far as to argue that American health care should include the same:
“… if we are going to have a national debate in the USA surrounding the definition of health care, we should seriously consider including sexual surrogacy for the disabled in the basket of services that we provide. Already, we have made the choice to pay for other purely social and cosmetic services to help unfortunate individuals lead more pleasurable and productive lives such as breast reconstruction for mastectomy patients and plastic surgery for children born with cleft lips. As a society, we also provide food for those who cannot feed themselves, even delivering it to their homes, when required. Sexual pleasure ought not be viewed any differently”
Of course, if sexual pleasure is medicalized and “ought not be viewed any differently” than feeding and bathing, this would create real legal and occupational pressures against nurses who don’t want to be prostitutes.
@Josh; the story blew up when a CHP officer (off-duty) was driving a loaner Toyota and a broken pedal ended up with him and his family dead. Toyota has been saying for two years it is driver error. Only after that accident did they take it seriously.
I have zero doubts that this particular prius driver is doing it for the fame. His story makes no sense.
Tyler should declare a “no-Toyota” zone. Any attempt to explain it is far more revealing of the pundit’s bias, or, in the case of people like Megan and Alex, their reflective desire to manipulate numbers.
The real question is whether Toyota should act like a good german and take their lashings like Audi did, or whether they should get all righteous and American and indignant.
@Josh; the story blew up when a CHP officer (off-duty) was driving a loaner Toyota and a broken pedal ended up with him and his family dead.
Was he old? Was he an immigrant? Was he having financial problems? Maybe he was a trial lawyer jihadist.
It has always seemed me that many of the same people who are eager to talk about the evils of our tort system are also ready to claim that the threat of lawsuits is an effective substitute for government regulation in many instances.
Yes, this.
The paper is about practices of the Catholic Church. In the Catholic Church sainthood and canonization are not synonyomus. A Saint is someone who has led a life in union with God and been rewarded with eternal life. Canonization is a process in which someone is officially recognized as having led such a life and is, therefore, worthy of emulation. If people did not beleive that someone was a Saint before they were canonized they would not aske them to interced on their behalf and there wouldn’t be anything to document for the canonization process. Obviously canonization requires the allocation of scarce resources, but it is not saint-making. This isn’t about whether or not you beleive it. Its about whether people want to understand what they claim to explain
Excellent post, thank you very much for taking the time to share with those who are starting on the subject. Greetings
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