How much of educational political polarization is due to feminization?

by on May 2, 2017 at 2:09 pm in Data Source, Education, Political Science | Permalink

The shrinking of the middle is largely due to a recent rise in the share of women (who also represent a majority of college students) who identify as either liberal or far left. The share of female respondents, but not male respondents, who describe their political views this way was at an all-time high (41.1 percent for women, 28.9 percent for men). Left-wing views peaked for men way back in 1971, at 43.6 percent.

That is from the always interesting Catherine Rampell.  The “political gender gap” across men and women, in these numbers, never has been higher, see the link for a picture and details but by one measure it is 12.2 percentage points.

Given the distribution of the “political correctness movement” across majors, how much it is simply the result of the increased feminization of education itself?

1 dearieme May 2, 2017 at 2:16 pm

If women are going to fill posts in government, or government-funded activities (e.g. schoolmarming), or in the parts of companies that exist because of government regulations, are they just pursuing their own interests?

2 wallis May 2, 2017 at 3:39 pm

…well, everyone pursues their own self-interest as they perceive it — everywhere & always.
Women sure like schoolmarming, even in this 21st Century.

75% of U.S. elementary school teachers are women, most with ditzy feminist/leftist college degrees in “education” or the like. They have a stranglehold on most American boys in their most formative years — infantilizing, feminizing, and regimenting them.

“Primary education does everything in its power to turn boys into neuters… what you’re seeing is how a civilization commits suicide” (Camille Paglia)

3 FG May 2, 2017 at 3:45 pm

I’d put more weight on that Paglia quote if her “Conversations With Tyler” hadn’t revealed her as someone who insists that every single dimension of life was better when she was in high school.

4 material woman May 2, 2017 at 5:27 pm

nonono, you’ve got it wrong. Paglia believes that the apex moment of western civilization was Madonna’s “Like a Prayer” was the most popular music in America.

5 Scott H. May 3, 2017 at 5:32 am

She was pretty close.

6 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 6:22 pm

I don’t remember her saying anything like that. Is there a transcript you could cite?

7 FG May 2, 2017 at 8:31 pm

Sure, transcript from here: https://medium.com/conversations-with-tyler/a-conversation-with-camille-paglia-a842db2f3c6

“PAGLIA: I was raised in a time, 1950s, when Hollywood was competing with television by doing something which television couldn’t do, with those gigantic screens. Like in The Ten Commandments, there’s a giant thing of Pharaoh, a giant sculpture . . . Young people have no sense whatever of the expansive, of the big gesture . . . I just feel lucky, I think, that I have a kind of epic imagination, because I was raised watching The Ten Commandments and Ben-Hur.”

“PAGLIA: There were so many phenomenal images that I was inundated with when I was in high school and college, and what do these kids have today? Taylor Swift? Oh, my God. She is such a fake. She poses in things that she imagines are sexy and sultry, and it’s so fake. Awful, awful, awful. At least Rihanna, who’s on dope most of the time, and that’s why she looks so sultry, but  . . . Rihanna’s Instagrams are, to me, like a work of art. That’s the only thing I’m following right now, I have to say, that’s of equal importance . . .”

“COWEN: You’re sounding like a cultural conservative. [laughs]”

“PAGLIA: David Bowie, at his height, was absolutely brilliant, electrifying, kabuki — on and on and so on. Now, all these pallid androgynes of today, there’s nothing creative about them whatever.”

“PAGLIA: . . . There’s very little culturally right now. There’s very little of substance or interest being produced in art and in culture.”

Still the only “Conversations With Tyler” I didn’t finish.

8 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 9:00 pm

Looks to me like she was only complaining about the culture rather than “every facet of life.” Why is that so triggering to you?

9 Todd K May 2, 2017 at 3:54 pm

“…well, everyone pursues their own self-interest as they perceive it — everywhere & always.”

Not me. My soul purpose is to advance the Marginal Revolution, at the margin.

10 P Burgos May 2, 2017 at 4:36 pm

Is that really what typical primary school education is like in the U.S.? This is a genuine question for other people with recent experience sending their children to public schools in the U.S.

11 msgkings May 2, 2017 at 4:40 pm

Of course not. This is a comment section, used mainly for ideological posturing.

12 P Burgos May 2, 2017 at 5:26 pm

I agree that this is a comment section, mainly used for ideological posturing. However, I have read accounts that elementary school has become too regimented and focused on academics to the point where schools and teachers are concentrating less and less on physical activity and psycho-social development. Perhaps this is mainly an upper-middle class concern; college educated Americans mostly have college educated parents, siblings, and cousins, so they reasonably believe that their offspring are also going to be able to successfully navigate our educational-industrial complex. But whether or not the children of the upper middle class grow up to be good people (in the sense of good to their families, close friends, etc.) or a$$holes is much more in question. Most everyone has family members that they don’t really like.

13 ladderff May 2, 2017 at 5:52 pm

Msgkings woukd like you to know that he affiliates with the dominant faction and that if you and millions of your fellow citizens have any objections whatsoever to the lunatic things that are obviously happening in American primary schools, well, that just means you, and they, must be some kind of loser, loser.

Msgkings is despicable, in other words.

14 msgkings May 2, 2017 at 6:03 pm

@P Burgos: Not much that schools, or the state itself, can do about whether your kids are good people or assholes, and whether you will have family members you don’t like. That’s mostly genes, parenting, and fate. For example, ladderff probably has a genetic predisposition to victimhood and hysteria, fueled by his echo chamber of media choices, exhibited in his comments here.

Some schools are probably too regimented, but then again for many students that is probably exactly what they need. There are good schools and bad ones and mostly ok ones. Twas always thus.

15 ladderff May 2, 2017 at 8:11 pm

Burgos, here we see more standard msgkings: bizarrely personal characterizations of someone he has never met and knows nothing about. Obviously he knows nothing about my “media choices,” for example. He often asserts that I and others bear all kinds of weird feelings toward non-whites as such. Nathan used to get into this kind of thing, too. Whatever the valence of these assertions, they are false and reckless and that qualifies them as insults. In a better world this bitch would have to answer for them.

I trust you can see his sage “moderate” “twas always thus” routine for what it is.

16 msgkings May 2, 2017 at 10:04 pm

ladderff, I mean you no ill will. Please don’t be so easily triggered.

17 isaac May 2, 2017 at 6:57 pm

@P Burgos:

Millions of American boys are struggling academically. Many are falling behind in grades and disengaged from school– boys are far less likely than girls to pursue education beyond high school (and the high school male dropout rate is high). The Feminist engineered anti-male, girl-favoring gender gap in American schools is becoming a chasm.

Across the country, schools are policing and punishing the normal, assertive social behavior of boys. Many much-loved games have vanished from school playgrounds… like tag, dodge-ball and tug of war. And it’s now handcuffs for any boy playfully using his finger as a gun in school. Most larger schools now have full time “Resource Officers” (armed cops/prison guards) to ensure boys conform to enlightened Feminist standards.

Don’t ask about the academic quality of U.S. public schools, especially for poor/minority boys or girls.
Government schools had big problems long before the Feminists showed up.

18 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 7:40 pm

Agree paragraph 2 but is the relative lack of men in college really a problem? Much of college education is essentially worthless.

19 Thiago Ribeiro May 2, 2017 at 8:55 pm

“Most larger schools now have full time “Resource Officers” (armed cops/prison guards) to ensure boys conform to enlightened Feminist standards.”

Including not killing one another. Let’s be honest, most of these children, girls and boys alike, are wild beast. The law says they can not be whipped or be sold to the soap factory, so prison guards it must be.

20 John Hall May 2, 2017 at 6:11 pm

But most teachers have been women for a long time. You’d have to point out what specifically has changed in the past 25 or so years.

21 isaac May 2, 2017 at 7:07 pm

The Feminist Movement showed up. Also, much increased politicization & leftish political-correctness in the administration & classrooms of public schools. The primary purpose of government public schools is not education, but social control.

22 The Other Jim May 2, 2017 at 8:45 pm

>But most teachers have been women for a long time.

Their entire lives, even.

23 msgkings May 2, 2017 at 10:05 pm

I LOLed

24 anon May 2, 2017 at 8:17 pm

yes, primary education has been dominated by women teachers for a while but what happened now is the full ethos of multicultural feminism completely dominates the classroom. You have lots of stupid books with nothing vaguely heroic or masculine in them that do not interest the boys at all, lots of journeys of minority women going from nowhere to nothing. Every kind of competition has been pulled out of the classroom that they possibly can, and they try to outlaws much competitive stuff in recesses they can as well. The feminist teachers don’t even know that there is a non-Communist version of American history basically the kids learn about this massacre and this genocide and then how horrible capitalism is and nothing else. I think the only thing they taught them in their ancient history segment was that Rome had slaves and therefore they were evil to.. my son would know nothing about history if I hadn’t talked to him and given him some books to read. The teachers also reflexively blame boys for anything that goes wrong and girls as always are the teacher’s pet to get their own way with everything. it’s every bit as bad as people claim.

25 Thiago Ribeiro May 2, 2017 at 8:57 pm

“You have lots of stupid books with nothing vaguely heroic or masculine in them that do not interest the boys at all”. We call them Math books.

26 Dan Lavatan-Jeltz May 2, 2017 at 9:05 pm

Primary education does everything in its power to turn boys into mass murders. I’m stunned there isn’t a Columbine every week and if they lived to trial, I’m not sure I could convict. Maybe we should just have a few days a year when everyone can shoot as many teachers as they want.

27 Anon7 May 2, 2017 at 11:11 pm

If that’s what it takes to get a teacher with tenure fired, well, then perhaps that’s not such a bad idea.

28 Troll Me May 2, 2017 at 5:07 pm

There aren’t many volunteers in government. A few, but not many.

Do you think they would work better if they were paid nothing? I do not recall that the Soviets even bothered to try such a thing. Normally, inducement are required for results. Such as a paycheque.

However, the fact that they get paid for their efforts does not stand as evidence about whether or not they give a shit. My guess is that people who take 9-5 day jobs in government give a shit. (I assume they would not opt to give away their pension just to prove their patriotism towards other taxpayers, however.)

29 Troll Me May 2, 2017 at 5:09 pm

However, for those in the unfortunate position of not pursuing their interests whatsoever while on the job, there’s always the option to change careers.

What do you think, should we applaud effort to succeed and advance things in the public sector, applaud effort to succeed and advance things in the private sector, or … (mind blowing), promote excellence and success in both public and private sectors?

Or, should we should abandon the promotion of excellence altogether, and leave it to the oligarchs domestic and foreign to keep us in order?

30 Potato May 2, 2017 at 11:43 pm

Are you high? This is two posts of unintelligible word salad.

Is Nathan a schizophrenic?

31 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:17 am

I must have said something especially valuable.

Might there be a conspiracy (already proof of schizophrenia for use of the word) … involving it being very important for people to disrespect the public service.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I think people are fully capable of that all on their own. Just that … you want to milk that, right?

Or is the real problem the packaging? Do you think all poets and musicians are schizophrenic? Or is this just a term that you throw out to try to malign any who do not a) speak WHAT you want them to say and b) speak HOW you want them to say.

Folks. This is no small part of how they intend to rule the world.

32 me troll May 3, 2017 at 11:45 am

Nathan’s another Thiago persona, frostier and charmless.

33 alex May 2, 2017 at 5:40 pm

But liberal/far left identifiers are still pretty well below 50% for both?? in their freshman year???

I expect a higher portion of seniors would be further left, and a higher portion of freshman and seniors further left in higher ranking schools

34 Troll Me May 2, 2017 at 5:48 pm

This is driven by your world view that higher education brainwashes people into being “liberal” or “left wing”, right?

I do not insist that people have university qualifications. But I insist that they can prove the ability to discern between information and bullshit. Often, that is one of the main skills picked up in uni, in addition to report/research writing. The fact that a 100% success rate is not achieved, as proven by the obvious fact that some uni students remain clueless about the difference between information and propaganda … well, that’s evidence that there is not 100% success in this regard.

99 is not 0.

Nor is 90.

35 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 6:52 pm

Buy yourself a mirror.

36 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:18 am

1 is no 100.

37 Bill May 2, 2017 at 5:55 pm

dearieme,

Are you saying that men are pursuing their own interests when they want the government to increase military spending?

I think we have more guns than butter.

38 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 6:53 pm

Considering the people who want that are mostly cucks, no.

39 Thiago Ribeiro May 2, 2017 at 9:00 pm

Butter would only make people fatter.

40 asdf May 2, 2017 at 2:18 pm

Specifically, the gender gap is highest among the educated, and there is a geographic pattern to the gap as well.

Well educated women are conformity machines, and they conform to the leftism of their professional coastal urban environments.

41 EverExtruder May 2, 2017 at 2:43 pm

“Conformity Machines”

Extremely well-said. Regardless of being well-educated or not, women have and are always far more concerned about conformity and avoiding out-groupness. Eggs are expensive, sperm is cheap. Don’t forget the original dorks and geeks and nerds of silicon valley, where women can now not whine enough about “more women in tech”. Once it becomes popular or essential, they demand entry. They have very seldom ever been on the front-lines or willing to take the risks that implies.

They are fundamentally reactive. I see it in my experiences and in my company. Taking the initiative and responsibility for it is something I very seldom see – with only one exception I can recall – among women.

42 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 2:52 pm

Gosh, why would a social species, in which individual life is death (sooner than later, and definitely for the gene line), need conformity machines?

Pro tip: You too are a conformity machine. You just try here to establish a slightly different conformity for your slightly greater advantage.

43 EverExtruder May 2, 2017 at 3:21 pm

I did not say that they were not needed nor did I ask the question why they are the way they are 99.9% of the time.

In response to Tyler’s and asdf’s post I explained my reasoning why women are bad for innovation and long-term diversity of thought, especially politically. I believe whole-heartedly women are bad for innovation and long-term diversity of political thought. You may now release the hounds.

44 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 3:34 pm

I won’t release the hounds, but I will laugh for a little while.

I have worked in exploding (in the good way) IPOs with females in key positions.

Made me $$$. YMMV.

45 FG May 2, 2017 at 3:42 pm

“[Women] are fundamentally reactive. I see it in my experiences and in my company. Taking the initiative and responsibility for it is something I very seldom see – with only one exception I can recall – among women.”

This seems like a lot of weight to put on how your experiences have made you feel. That’s probably natural, but do you have more compelling evidence?

46 ladderff May 2, 2017 at 5:42 pm

Would the evidence make a difference? It is too much to hope for.

47 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 5:53 pm

Those who explode ipos tend to be male, there’s a huge controversy about why. But I’m not shilling for them, between feminists and banksters, it’s a shame they can’t both lose.

48 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 6:23 pm

“feminists and banksters”

Two misses. It is a little strange though, there have been positions available for smart women in California tech firms for many, many, years. My mom helped sell mainfames in the 1950s. My first team leads in tech were women, in the 1980s, and it struck no one then as strange.

Now suddenly it is treated as a big deal, and provokes this weird negative reaction .. from people who have never worked with smart women? Where do you even live? 17th century Salem?

49 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 6:57 pm

Anonymous, not sure what you’re trying to say. That the relative lack of women in tech is a myth? If you think that, you’re just stupid.

50 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 8:57 pm

What is “lack?”

It certainly isn’t “none.” Indeed there are many iconic examples, from Madame Currie to Mary Barra.

On the other hand there seems to be sudden increased drama. I don’t know why. Is it because “women in STEM” (which should be at a minimum harmless and as I say not really new), frightens some?

Maybe the people who are frightened, or threatened, got problems.

51 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 9:03 pm

I believe it was the feminists who started the whole “women in STEM” issue. Are you going to condemn them?

52 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 9:30 pm

As I say, I think “women in STEM” is as a baseline, harmless. They seek to recruit women and girls to science and engineering, which is fine.

It becomes complicated, a literal he-said she-said, when assertions of discrimination arise.

Probably the way to cut through that is to respect anyone who is doing good work (and not trying to advance, or protect a position, by pushing anyone down).

53 Hazel Meade May 2, 2017 at 3:54 pm

I do think that women tend to be more conformist, but that is largely because women depend much more on social relationships for advantage. Physical fighting is not a viable option – a woman who gets into a fist-fight with a man is probably going to lose badly. Men can get aggro and bully or stare down people, but women have to work within non-violent relationships. You can’t tell the world to fuck off and then make a go of it in the wild either, or not as successfully.

This is different from not being on the front lines or not being willing to take risks though. Nobody should be destroying their business career or antagonizing people anyway, even if you are taking risks. Risk-taking doesn’t have to mean recklessly putting other people’s money on the line in a way that destroys your career or gets you banned from your industry if you screw up.

Also, sometime I think men are kind of stupidly aggro and emotional about business decisions. Guys are way more likely to get attached to a position and defend it like their honor had been impugned, even when proven wrong. A lot of time gets wasted and mistakes get made because guys are having dick fights. The women are often the more laid back and rational people in the room cause they aren’t acting like alpha-male chimpanzees.

54 TMC May 2, 2017 at 5:41 pm

Sounds about right, on all accounts.

55 Hoosier May 2, 2017 at 7:45 pm

“A lot of time gets wasted and mistakes get made because guys are having dick fights. The women are often the more laid back and rational people in the room cause they aren’t acting like alpha-male chimpanzees.” This fits my experience certainly.

56 M May 2, 2017 at 3:55 pm

I don’t know if I’d agree that women are more conformist than men. The women I know place a pretty similar value on being an individual, and owning their own thoughts and actions.

It may be rather that academia is just harsher against Conservative women and/or Conservative women tend to opt out at relatively higher rates. We know Conservatives generally tend more to opt out of higher education, and part of this is perceived hostility of the academy.

Now while I don’t know if I believe women are more conformist exactly, it seems pretty possible that men are generally a bit more kind of “Go fuck yourself” battle machines and women more conflict-averse, and that males avoid conforming in a more aggressive, direct way and women avoid conforming in a more defensive, indirect avoidant way.

So perhaps Conservative women are simply avoiding the conformist Left wing atmosphere of the campus by avoiding going at higher rates, all relative to a general and rising female education advantage.

(It would be junk if it didn’t turn out to be true, but rhetorically, I like the idea of being able to tell the Left that increasing left wing political polarization has had an effect of stopping women getting a further education.)

57 Hazel Meade May 2, 2017 at 5:07 pm

Yeah, I think women just tend to have a different leadership style than men.
Women tend to be more consensus driven decision makers, while men will be more dominant, top-down managers. This isn’t universally true – there are some examples of dominant women managers that bully people, but I’d consider those people shitty managers. And actually there are more passive male managers who are some of the better managers I have had too so it’s not completely gender specific. But women tend to be less aggressive in general so they are more likely to adopt a laid back consensus driven leadership style. It’s important not to conflate consensus driven with conformist. A top-down manager who orders his subordinates around is arguable more conformist then someone who tries to manage divergent opinions and reach consensus.

Campus politics though … that’s something else. There’s a higher level of social manipulation where instead of actually seeking consensus, it’s just a battle to create the appearance of one so as to suppress dissenters. And there’s a certain kind of dominant female personality that is good at doing that. Instead of a general ordering people to get in line (masculine style), you have this constant soft pressure to conform to what the core clique believes, or else be shunned (feminine style).

58 Troll Me May 2, 2017 at 5:14 pm

In which ways do women conform?

Mainly, I observe that they tend towards option A which does not want to control their reproductive apparatus, as compared to option B which thinks men should rule the time and place of what women can do with their reproductive apparatus.

So,I imagine there is a lot of conformity among women on such questions. But perhaps you can share with us some more pertinent areas of conformity among women?

59 TMC May 2, 2017 at 5:46 pm

Laws against violence in general, and murder specifically, help women much more than men. Until the law applies to them.

60 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 5:55 pm

Meh. Men as likely to be pro choice as women.

61 mulp May 2, 2017 at 7:51 pm

So, any laws that impact men, who murder, beat, and rape others, discriminate against men vs women who murder, beat, and rape, who are far fewer in number, even though women exceed men in the total population?

62 Troll Me May 2, 2017 at 5:15 pm

Why don’t you start an anti-conformity movement?

Like, conformity is a problem right?

Lets get rid of conformity. Celebrate diversity and all. (Oops, celebration of diversity is not part of the ideological package that you CONFORM to.)

63 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 5:57 pm

Having a different skin color is not an act of non conformism.

64 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:19 am

I define my entire identity by the percentage intensity of skin in the skin cells on the outside of my body.

It defines me. I am melanin deficiency.

65 Doug May 2, 2017 at 6:01 pm

> Well educated women are conformity machines

I agree with this point, but take issue with the negative connotation here. The image you’re conveying here is a brave rebel yelling out that the emperor has no clothes. In reality the vast majority of non-conformists are blatantly wrong at best, and savage brutes at worse. For every J Robin Warren, there’s a million crackpots who are trying to patent a free energy machine. And those are the intelligent and thoughtful ones. A low-IQ non-conformist is typically a violent thug, who “don’t care nuthin’ bout’ da law”.

Civilization is only possible because modern populations have *significantly* higher levels of conformity than ancestral hunter-gatherers. Try filling the island of Manhattan with one million Comanche Indians and it’d all probably be burnt to the ground by sun down.

66 Bill May 2, 2017 at 2:19 pm

How much of educational political polarization is due to masculinity?

67 Thomas May 2, 2017 at 2:59 pm

How much of your condescension of your sex is status signalling. We get it, you think you are better than people who can lift their body weight and turn a wrench.

68 Bill May 2, 2017 at 3:02 pm

I can not only lift my body weight and turn a wrench,

But

I can think.

Not mutually exclusive.

69 Sam Haysom May 2, 2017 at 3:21 pm

Missing here is evidence of either. You are a conformity machine though.

70 Nobody May 2, 2017 at 5:36 pm

Nobody churns out conformity like the right.

71 The Centrist May 2, 2017 at 3:42 pm

Not sure about the thinking, but you can Haiku with the best of them.

72 Bill May 2, 2017 at 4:04 pm

Thomas,

I believe Rosey the Riveter was smart,

She could turn a wrench,

And probably lift her own weight,

Wearing high heels.

Can you?

73 Alan May 2, 2017 at 4:47 pm

Worst Haiku ever.

74 Bill May 2, 2017 at 5:52 pm

The joke is

It’s not a

Haiku.

75 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 5:12 pm

Dont know. Unlike you, ive never worn high heels.

76 Bill May 2, 2017 at 5:53 pm

Then you have no way to criticize Rosie

Because

You were never in

Her shoes.

77 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 6:40 pm

Definitely a vagina worshipper.

78 Bill May 2, 2017 at 8:19 pm

Milio,

From my perspective, better than being a penis worshipper.

But, maybe not yours.

79 ladderff May 2, 2017 at 2:22 pm

Today’s episode of shameless toadying!—In which Tyler fails to credit the people who’ve already years ago carefully and thoroughly developed this idea because those people don’t have the right connections!

80 FG May 2, 2017 at 3:43 pm

Who were these people?

81 Massimo Heitor May 2, 2017 at 2:28 pm

Many people have pointed this out. Peter Thiel wrote this in very reasonable language and the left media twisted it into flame bait articles like: “Peter Thiel Once Wrote That Women Getting The Vote Was Bad For Democracy”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democracy_us_5747079be4b03ede4413f6f5

I’ve heard people like Kling say that ideally people vote with their actions, their wallet, and their feet, rather than with a ballot. Which is another related argument.

82 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 2:41 pm

Thiel missed a learning opportunity. He wrote:

Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.

What he missed was that a “capitalist democracy” only deserves to exist if it serves all its citizens. Indeed Thiel went full egoist when he said “I have little hope that voting will make things better.”

Of course not, because he doesn’t mean for all of us. He means for him. He, the decider, the world designer.

83 Thomas May 2, 2017 at 3:01 pm

How very populist of you.

84 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 3:18 pm

Populism is not really the same thing as inclusive self-determination.

85 Sam Haysom May 2, 2017 at 3:24 pm

That’s true populism has a semi coherent meaning inclusive self-determination isn’t whatever the left needs it to be. Which makes the irony especially poignant because your obstensible self determination is set for you but a bunch of left wing billionaires.

86 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 3:36 pm

Obviously, true inclusive self-determination​ spans the political compass.

It recognizes the diverse population as one whole.

87 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 5:14 pm

How about the non diverse population?

88 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 6:25 pm

There are no non diverse populations. They divide into big endians and little endians by a natural law.

89 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 6:42 pm

People who throw around technical terms when they aren’t at all relevant are signallers.

90 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 9:00 pm

It was meant in the original sense. Gulliver’s Travels.

91 Jeff R May 2, 2017 at 3:14 pm

I would rather have Peter Thiel be the decider, actually.

92 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 3:19 pm

Maybe he’ll let you be towel boy.

93 Jeff R May 2, 2017 at 3:22 pm

You can be my assistant.

94 ladderff May 2, 2017 at 3:29 pm

The Santa Claus level of delusion on display here is daunting.

95 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 3:38 pm

Santa Thiel, ruling the north pole seastead, with a group of like minded souls?

Imagine the life of a 2nd gen teen with different vision. Voted off?

96 Troll Me May 2, 2017 at 5:20 pm

How is it a “free market” if political activities to shape market activities are not allowed?

It’s as though there is no freedom unless workers are disallowed from organizing, while capital holders rule the roost. Is that your definition of “capitalism”?

Capitalism necessarily involves representation of workers and consumers, whether as political parties or as organized interest groups. Because otherwise it’s just a dictatorship of robber barons.

97 Potato May 2, 2017 at 11:56 pm

Nathan,

Freedom is freedom. That means no cartels. Anti-cartel policy is an unnecessary function of government that I support for signaling purposes (assuming you’re not completely retarded you know cartels face an impossible, no solution game theory problem).

But that goes for labor too. It’s literally unconstitutional to have an NLRB decide A and B between two independent entities with full rights. Freedom necessitates freedom of association. You’re Canadian and an expat. You are clearly a left wing left brained poly sci something something. And that’s great, and the world needs idealists ranting about the dangers of apple brainwashing children. Because it puts reality into perspective.

However, freedom of association only exists if we have freedom of DISassociation. And that includes refusing to deal with a union. Or an individual.

We are a dying breed and the constitution is no shield. Your vision will win soon, where freedom of association ane freedom of speech are both crimes with long prison sentences.

Ugh

98 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:23 am

You don’t have to deal with anyone.

If you don’t want to deal with the union, don’t. In the meantime, worker unions and shareholder unions will both enjoy rights to negotiate collectively. If you don’t like situations where the other group at the table enjoys the same rights as you, then don’t go to that table.

If you want to open a business that is open to the public, then common sense rules about who are are friends with or sleep with, etc. do not apply. No one is forcing you to befriend people from groups that you hold prejudices against. No one wants to force you to sleep with foreign women.

But if you open a PUBLIC business to the PUBLIC, then every person who walks in that door, whether for a job or to spend money, should be treated the same as anyone else, without prejudice to the average concentration of melanin in their skin cells.

Then, in your own time, duh, no one is going to force you to hang out with people who hold prejudices against in your own time. That would be wrong.

99 asdf May 2, 2017 at 4:13 pm

People voting with their ballot was the replacement for people voting with their rifle.

100 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 5:20 pm

Libertardians will never understand this.

101 Troll Me May 2, 2017 at 5:21 pm

It gave a stake for landholders to take an interest in the overall advancement of the country.

How the rest of us got the vote …. not sure how it happened, but not a bad idea.

102 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 2:34 pm

As someone outside education, the whole “feminization” thing seems pretty odd. Perhaps if you live your life inside campus politics you lose sight of how fleeting the experience is for most students.

More students still arrive and leave as moderates than as strong left or right.

103 The Centrist May 2, 2017 at 3:46 pm

“More students still arrive and leave as moderates than as strong left or right.”

One would hope so, but I am not sure.

Moderation in defence of moderateness should be a vice.

104 Doug May 2, 2017 at 6:06 pm

I don’t think the issue is so much the direct impact on students. It’s more than academia is the de facto “thought leader” of American intellectual thought. When you need to understand some hitherto un-considered “big question”, what’s your first impulse? If you’re anything like me or the vast majority of people, it’s “let me check the peer-reviewed literature”. It’s telling that it’s automatically implied that the “peer” in that phrase almost unequivocally means tenured professors at research universities.

105 Nobody May 2, 2017 at 6:54 pm

I turn to Rush first. Then Hannity.

106 Jordan S. May 3, 2017 at 1:53 pm

Does the vast majority of people know what “the peer-reviewed literature” is?

107 Millian May 2, 2017 at 2:41 pm

It is probably a response to positions on, among other issues, abortion. No point voting for a moderate if he ushers in the wrong Supreme Court judge.

108 eccdogg May 2, 2017 at 2:50 pm

There seem to be little/no differences in abortion views between men and women.

Gender Legal in all/most cases Illegal in all/most cases
Women 57% 40%
Men 57% 39%
PEW RESEARCH CENTER

109 The Other Jim May 2, 2017 at 3:22 pm

There is a HUGE difference between “all” and “most” in that question, Spanky.

110 The Other Jim May 2, 2017 at 3:34 pm

Further, I bet no two people had the same definition of “most,” either.

111 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 5:16 pm

Not relevant to the point made.

112 Thomas May 2, 2017 at 2:56 pm

Feminism is an identitarian movement focused on increasing the relative statua of women. Women voting left are voting for their interests, without regard to actual equality it should be said.

113 Doug May 2, 2017 at 6:13 pm

The vast majority of the historical gains to female status has come from increasing economic development and cultural cosmopolitanism. Civilized people pretty much tend to universally respect women, and the uncivilized treat them like dirt. Identity politics may push around the equilibrium on the margin, but in the grand scheme of thing’s it’s a rounding error. If you could indoctrinate Atilla and the rest of the Huns, Clockwork Orange-style, into eight semesters of gender studies lectures, it wouldn’t make a difference. They’d still be brutal barbarian warlords, no matter how “woke” they were.

114 Thanatos Savehn May 2, 2017 at 8:47 pm

The more interesting question is: “After Atilla throws the feminist lecturer over his shoulder, carries her back to his tent and thoroughly ravishes her, will she be happy and cured at last of her bitterness?” Alas, only Game of Thrones is allowed to ask (and to answer) such questions nowadays.

115 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 9:08 pm

LOL

116 Thomas May 3, 2017 at 11:34 am

Doug, I agree with this, but social norms are not my point. Feminism lobbies for laws which are enforced by guns. They lobby for laws that benefit themselves without regard to equality, which is their calling card only. The larger point is that feminism is identitarian politics which seeks to place one half of the population in to a superior legal position, and so, should expect an identitarian defense from that half.

117 rayward May 2, 2017 at 3:12 pm

Are women smarter than men? I suppose it depends on the meaning of smart. Stupid people get their way all the time. Why? Because most people are, you know, stupid. If I’m stuck in a foxhole in a war zone or need a good plumber, I want stupid men in there with me. On the other hand, stupid men can cause great harm to lots of people if they set their stupid minds to it. Outside the foxhole and faulty plumbing, I’d prefer smart women.

118 Sam Haysom May 2, 2017 at 3:28 pm

Apparently not if you are getting stuck inside plumbers.

119 Bernard Guerrero May 2, 2017 at 3:53 pm

I am going to guess, based on your comment, that you have never had to deal with plumbing. Or worse yet, plumbing produced by stupid plumbers.

120 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 5:18 pm

I’m sure you “prefer” smart women. But you won’t be getting any!

121 mulp May 2, 2017 at 4:50 pm

“Given the distribution of the “political correctness movement” across majors, how much it is simply the result of the increased feminization of education itself?”

Political correctness is what, exactly?

A) Talking about sex, abortion, birth control, females being in control of everything sexual in their lives???

B) Limiting speech in all aspects of sexual life based on the demands of one or minority faction of men and women, and giving one faction, say men, or conservatives, more authority to speak with “authority” rather than facts and reason???

Was Reagan in the 60s a warrior against “political correctness”? Reagan handwritten not to Ron Dumkte:

Dear Glenn

How far do we go in tolerating these people & this trash under the excuse of academic freedom & freedom of expression? Please understand, that question isn’t made in any tone of accusation. I mean myself too in that use of the term ‘we.’

We wouldn’t let a LeRoi Jones in our livingroom and we wouldn’t tolerate this kind of language in front of our families. Hasn’t the time come to take on those neurotics in our faculty group and lay down some rules of conduct for the students comparable to what we’d expect in our own families? If we do and the ‘we’ this time means you’d have all the backing I could give you, I believe the people of Calif. would take the state college system to their hearts.

[illegible] Ron

http://100percentfedup.com/how-reagan-dealt-with-radical-protesters-at-berkeley-university-video/

122 Thiago Ribeiro May 2, 2017 at 4:55 pm

As the internal contradictions of the American refime grow deeper the populace gets more and more divided. We are seeing Rome falling.

And so begins the final drama
In the streets and in the fields
We stand unbowed before their armor
We defy their guns and shields
When we fight provoked by their aggression
Let us be inspired by like and love
For though they offer us concessions
Change will not come from above

123 The Other Jim May 2, 2017 at 8:47 pm

So says the guy from Northern Uruguay.

124 Thiago Ribeiro May 2, 2017 at 9:02 pm

There is no Uruguay, North or South, whatsoever. Rhe so-called Uruguay is a rebel province of the former Empire of Brazil and is a legitimate part of the Federative Republic of Brazil. It will, soon or later, join again the Fatherland.

125 Jay May 2, 2017 at 5:19 pm

There have been a disproportionate number of men that were appointed to Secretary of education. Previously only Carter and Shrub had nominated women. So you would think when Trump put up a woman to head the post the feminists would applaud another woman breaking through the glass ceiling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Secretary_of_Education

126 Troll Me May 2, 2017 at 5:35 pm

Appointing women to positions they are not qualified to hold will not help more women break through the glass ceiling.

127 Anon May 2, 2017 at 8:48 pm

When someone breaks the ceiling top-down , not sure it is something to be acclaimed.

128 Scott Mauldin May 2, 2017 at 5:39 pm

As expected, these comments on this post are pretty damn worthless.

129 Thiago Ribeiro May 2, 2017 at 5:58 pm

Says you.

130 Todd K May 2, 2017 at 7:04 pm

What is wrong with the one that reads “If you could indoctrinate Atilla and the rest of the Huns, Clockwork Orange-style, into eight semesters of gender studies lectures, it wouldn’t make a difference.”

Great image of Mr. Hun with his eyes forced open that I unfortunately won’t forget.

131 Greg May 2, 2017 at 9:15 pm

+1

MR comments have declined in quality drastically in the 9 or so years I’ve been reading the site, in my opinion. Too much posturing and fact-free assertions, particularly from the cuck-calling segment. Sad!

132 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 10:16 pm

Look in the mirror.

Sad!

133 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:25 am

I don’t think you understand that “Sad” is used as an insult to the low intellect of certain Trump supporters.

For example, the ones who say “Sad” and think they project much wit.

134 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 10:50 pm

I agree that the comments section has declined, but I think a big reason for it is the increased presence of cucks like yourself, perhaps caused by the gradual leftward drift of Tyler Cowen. And as the number of cucks have increased, so have the number claims by said cucks that the comments section “used to be better,” i.e. it used to be more liberal. That’s BS. But don’t take my word for it, you can browse the archives yourself.

135 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:26 am

Cuckledoodledoo!!!!

King Cuck has spoken.

136 BC May 2, 2017 at 6:31 pm

It’s interesting how remarkably stable the political distribution of males has been since about 1980, maybe a very slight drift of some from middle of the road to liberal or far left. Over the same period for females, there has indeed been dramatic movement out of middle of the road to liberal, perhaps also some slight increase in conservative.

Over this period, identitarian politics seems to have risen in importance relative to the ideological battle between capitalism and socialism. Socialism became discredited in the 1980s with the collapse of the Eastern Bloc and nothing has really replaced it on the left. Even liberals like Ezra Klein concede that the left reaches negotiated positions/understandings among its various interest groups rather than uniting around some shared, coherent ideology. It might seem obvious that when identity politics becomes more important, women become more liberal, but why wouldn’t men become more conservative? It may be because men for the most part have pretty much accepted that women have equal rights as men. Myself, I haven’t perceived any backtracking among males in this regard over the last 30 years. On the other hand, with demands for mandated maternity leave and childcare benefits, regulation of wages to produce desired statistical outcomes (“equal” pay) even in the absence of any identifiable or overt discrimination, mandated subsidies for contraception, etc., (many) women obviously are unsatisfied merely with having equal rights in the traditional sense of (at least facially) gender-neutral laws and policies. Men’s acceptance of women’s rights probably hasn’t changed much since the 80s but women’s definition of women’s rights probably has.

137 Miguel Madeira May 2, 2017 at 6:35 pm

The big question should be “how much political polarization in US is simply regression to the mean?” After all, having as reference most countries in the world, political polarization is normal; it was the pre-polarization USA (with many Democrats to the right of many Republicans) that was the outlier.

138 John Thacker May 3, 2017 at 6:00 am

The foreign country with the most similarity to the pre-polarization US is the Republic of Ireland, where the membership in major political parties Fine Gael and Fianna Fail is mostly determined not by policy, but by which sides your ancestors took in a civil war.

139 Anon May 2, 2017 at 8:46 pm

When Donald Trump can become President , why is this an issue ?

140 The Other Jim May 2, 2017 at 8:48 pm

I love it when people remind me that Donald Trump is President.

And I sure hope Hillary had fun with her cats today!

141 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:27 am

Well, he hasn’t claimed that the sky is not blue yet. So maybe it’s not an issue …

142 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:29 am

It would be good if he could establish more credibility. It would be useful for certain policy areas where credibility is critical.

For example, the other say he was on video saying that there’s too much spying on American citizens. And the reporter spend the next minute trying to force Trump’s foot into his own mouth.

If he would not say so many demonstrably false things, it would be easier to pay attention to him on some key issues.

143 McMike May 2, 2017 at 9:17 pm

I get the impression that several commenters here have never actually talked with a teacher. Or a woman.

FWIW.
They care.
The work is hard.
The responsibility is huge.
Testing emphasis and program regimentation are conservative things.
“Zero tolerance” is a conservative thing.

I’ll leave the “feminists are emasculating our boys” rants alone. Seems to me they’ve apparently succeeded with the overgrown boys who whine about that.

144 msgkings May 2, 2017 at 10:10 pm

Aw let ’em rant. This is their outlet.

145 Milo Fan May 2, 2017 at 10:18 pm

This thread really seems to have brought out the white knights.

146 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:31 am

Respecting women is “white knights”?

Wow. Do you understand what a degraded and disrespectful view towards women is required before you can see such a statement as a “white knight” statement?

Milo Fan, in looking for the comeback line, you are marching yourself further into delusion.

147 McMike May 2, 2017 at 10:52 pm

Let’s follow the “logic”…

– Teaching is easy.
– Teachers are overpaid.
– Teaching has a disproportionate ability to indoctrinate minds and shape the future of the country.

Sounds like a great and important gig. So why isn’t teaching flooded with right leaning rationalists and activists?

148 Sure May 2, 2017 at 11:23 pm

Teaching is dominated by unions and hiring committees filled with people who would not hire such individuals?
Teaching has seniority protections that benefit entrenched teachers; only those without other good short term options would degrade themselves for the years required to have the incumbents accept them into the fold?
Teaching is dominated by the education faculty of universities who do little things like write state standards and standardized tests, even if you want to teach to the right you would penalize your students who must parrot left leaning curricula on exams [and getting to be the sort of credentialed expert who sits on those committees requires going through multiple ideological gauntlets where faculty feel free to blackball you if you, say, attended an evangelical college a half decade ago]?
Teaching requires BS credentials which require sitting through a long period of indoctrination to achieve?
Teaching in a way that annoys those who lean left is a good way to have all manner of administrative hassle and burden on yourself that basically never falls from the left until you are well past the communist milestones?

Certainly I got a taste of all of these when I was working with the local AP Bio kids and had the audacity to note that “men and women” refers to real biological differences, like how men metabolize Ambien more quickly and excrete Benzodiazepine more quickly. Somehow four years of biochemistry undergrad, four years of medical school, and five more years of training qualifies me to prescribe all these things, but not to actually contradict the local teacher’s union rep/department head’s infatuation with gender-as-a-construct silliness. I was point blank told that though I am legally required to dose according to sex guidelines, I was not allowed to teach about them as I lacked an education degree.

Putting up with all that BS long enough to become a permanent full time hire would be bad enough. Having to do so without a safety net, well I strongly suspect that teacher’s unions and work rules winnow ruthlessly against contrary viewpoints. Heck it would not surprise me if the average school district has such bad policies that the only people willing to wade through them long enough to change them are exactly the sort of people who will change them for the worse.

If you are going to appeal to the logic of the market and prices, then you need free entry to the marketplace. For public education in America, this does not exist.

I would go further and note that where there is a free market for teachers, in private schools and in charter schools, the faculty are far less left leaning. Private teacher pay is lower in some cases, suggesting that private schools pick up heterodox teachers at below “market” rates due to discrimination lowering wages for heterodox workers and/or that private school teachers sacrifice significant pay and benefits in order to avoid the ideological BS. In other cases, private teacher pay is vastly higher and, at least in my experience, elite levels of pay seem to be directly correlated with less left lean in the faculty at the high school and lower levels.

Really though, there is a whole left wing educational ecology, this goes far beyond questions of difficulty and pay with merely the act of teaching.

149 McMike May 2, 2017 at 11:59 pm

Oh dear,
That sounds a lot like systematic institutionalized bias.
Perhaps you’d benefit from some affirmative action.

150 Sure May 3, 2017 at 7:59 am

Thanks, but no thanks. I have tried that racket and it still haunts me today.

151 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:34 am

There are a few different kinds of teaching.

1) preschool

2) low grades

3) middle grades

4) high school

5) undergrad and community college

6) grad school, post grad, etc.

So, read your comment with that in mind. You’re a bit all over the place, and hard to really make sense of what you’re getting at.

152 Gerber Baby May 2, 2017 at 11:36 pm

I think teacher pay is about right, but your argument is a total non-sequitur, it could be used to argue against the idea that anyone anywhere is overpaid.

153 McMike May 2, 2017 at 11:59 pm

“it could be used to argue against the idea that anyone anywhere is overpaid.”

Only if pay is your only metric for everything.

154 jorod May 2, 2017 at 10:08 pm

More like due to the media?

155 Anon7 May 2, 2017 at 10:28 pm

“Zero tolerance” was initiated by feminized Democrats in 1994 (Gun Free Schools Act) who would like to disarm everyone of guns and chuka sticks. Likewise they love PC regimentation.

Virtually anytime teachers are criticized you can count on someone to turn up to whine about a lack of respect for teachers and womansplain away their consistently mediocre results.

156 Anonymous May 2, 2017 at 10:38 pm

+1

The Democrats don’t like it now because (who could have possibly predicted that) non-Asian minorities are the most likely to be ensnared. But they were for it before they were against it.

157 McMike May 2, 2017 at 10:56 pm

I have to admit, the only way I can explain away someone like you is mediocre results.

158 Anon7 May 3, 2017 at 12:08 am

I now get to teach the mediocre students produced by K-12 teachers (thanks, guys!), and I ruthlessly fail all of the (whiny) “education” majors who don’t measure up as a public service.

159 McMike May 3, 2017 at 12:11 am

I suppose you have no idea how small and pathetic that post makes you sound.

160 Gerber Baby May 3, 2017 at 11:52 am

Don’t blame the teachers. Most of those individuals are just born very dumb. Nothing anyone can do about it.

161 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:35 am

I can’t sleep unless I have guns in the house.

But the other guys are the pansies.

162 Lebron James May 2, 2017 at 10:31 pm

If Clinton lost the election, and Palin played McCain, then Hannity is going to get fired and Paul Ryan …..

163 shrikanthk May 2, 2017 at 11:28 pm

Why do women rarely ever comment on a blog such as this?

Can conservatism (divorced from religion) ever capture the imagination of women? Or does it appeal only in a religious form to religious women?

164 Art Deco May 2, 2017 at 11:44 pm

Blog commentary on public affairs is a masculine pursuit, for whatever reason. That is so just about anywhere.

165 Gerber Baby May 2, 2017 at 11:59 pm

Most of the blog’s commenters are or lean toward libertarianism or alt-Right ideology, as does Cowen. Both those ideologies have long had trouble with women, because, at root, they are individualistic ideologies, whereas Leftism and religion are collectivist. It is likely that, for biological reasons, women are more psychologically presupposed toward collectivism and there’s nothing that anyone can do about it.

Some, among both libertarians and the alt-Right, want to try to appeal to women specifically, but these attempts usually lead to cringe-inducing tokenism and white knighting which will repel more women than they attract. Ultimately, neither group can attract women specifically because that would mean giving up the essence of what the movements are. To attract more women, they can only succeed through attracting more men, who will bring their daughters, wives, and girlfriends into the movements. In the neoreactionary group I am a member of, every female member is either the wife or the girlfriend of a male member. And that is OK. Unlike the cuckold commenters here, we have no special need for the approval of women.

166 McMike May 3, 2017 at 12:04 am

” Unlike the cuckold commenters here, we have no special need for the approval of women.”

Oh on the contrary. It’s pretty clear that’s the one thing you crave.

167 Miguel Madeira May 3, 2017 at 9:45 am

“Both those ideologies have long had trouble with women, because, at root, they are individualistic ideologies”

The alt-right, individualist?

168 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:37 am

Maybe related to creepy guys saying rapey and sometimes outrageously horrible things towards women?

169 liberalarts May 2, 2017 at 11:53 pm

Do any of the commenters above who claim primary teachers are all liberals actually know any elementary school teachers? I have found that they largely reflect the community in which they teach. So, urban teachers are liberals, just like college graduates in urban areas, and small town and rural elementary teachers lean conservative, just like their local populations. That is in contrast to university profs who are decidedly liberal.

170 McMike May 3, 2017 at 12:02 am

It is always a shock to fox news watchers to leave the bubble and find a whole world out there.

171 Anon7 May 3, 2017 at 1:07 am

Estimates by union leaders suggest that about 20% of AFT members and about 35% of NEA members voted for Trump. Political donations from individual teachers (let alone their execrable unions) also skew in favor of Democrats. In short, teachers are on average more liberal than the communities in which they reside but are not as uniformly liberal as your average university faculty.

172 liberalarts May 3, 2017 at 7:17 am

I would expect that non-unionized teachers (more often southern and rural) skew further right than these numbers, creating still more balance.

173 Anon7 May 3, 2017 at 11:34 am

Less unbalanced than 30% isn’t likely to make them balanced, but never mind the facts.

174 Troll Me May 3, 2017 at 11:39 am

If sensible climate science (if not action) can help in removing the “party of stupid” label, and if Republicans communicators can ease off onthe endless attack against credibility of higher education or academics … I suspect that more university professors would consider self identifying with Republicans more often than Democrats.

But when “party of stupid” resonates for some exceedingly concrete and identifiable reasons …. well … my theory is that experts and academics are not the source of bias on the question.

175 Anon7 May 3, 2017 at 6:13 pm

If academics dumped from the faculty science denying postmodernists who in fact have far more influence, then you might have a (very) small point to make.

176 John Thacker May 3, 2017 at 5:57 am

It seems very obvious to me that the reason for the enormously high percentage of “liberal” and “far left” college aged men, both absolute and compared to women, in the the early 1970s was the Vietnam War and the Draft, which affected men more than women.

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