Economics of LGBT talent bleg

Which are the good pieces written on this topic?

I thank you all in advance for your assistance.

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This could go in a very NSFW direction.

Hopefully, not everyone is bigotted enough to automatically associate LGBT topics with NSFW content.

Well the first thing I thought of was discrimination, the second was industry clustering. NSFW popped into my head as a distinct possibility on the 3rd or 4th thought. Had Tyler asked specifically about those two first topics, I probably wouldn't have had a snarky remark. But he asked about "LGBT talent". One must then wonder what kind of special talent they have that other people don't. My response probably would have been the same if he had asked about cis-, hetero- talent. If you're going to ask about talent related to sexual identity modifiers (I know transgender is a gender modifier, but I have yet to meet a trans-person (besides Deirdre McCloskey) who doesn't shoehorn they're sexual preference alongside their gender identity and that acronym is 75% about sexual preference, 80% if you throw in a Q), you should expect to get responses that are related to those sexual identity modifiers. And those topics are generally NSFW.

As a thought experiment for everyone, someone comes up to you and says, "I'm looking for lesbian talent", do you think librarian, grocery store clerk, screenwriter, computer programmer? What goes through your head?

Well, we’ve all been informed by the experts that there are absolutely no systemic differences by sex, gender, etc. regarding talent or capability - lumberjack, mathematician, software engineer, artist, airborne ranger, preK teacher. Badthink to even suggest that might not be the case.

In the end, liberals arts pays more than engineering. STEM spergs get really salty when I bring this up. Then I tell them to pipe up or I find someone in Bangalore who'll do their job at a third of the pay.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/20/business/liberal-arts-stem-salaries.html

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Late onset male to female transgenders tend to have what you might call Heroic careers: e.g., adventure writer, space entrepreneur, libertarian economist, World Greatest Athlete, etc etc

This particular flavor of transgenderism tends to come with a quite high IQ, non-liberal politics, and intense individualism.

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"I'm looking for lesbian talent"

You can find a lot in the WNBA and the LPGA. Women military officers as well.

You generally won't find many lesbians in professions that skew heavily gay male, such as fashion design.

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do you think librarian, grocery store clerk, screenwriter, computer programmer? What goes through your head?

1. Gym teacher
2. Security guard
3. Miscellaneous wage employment, not in an office setting and not in certain sorts of retail trade (e.g. gift shops and boutiques).
4. Social worker (w/ bad attitude)
5. College teacher (w/ bad attitude).
6. College administrator (w/ bad attitude).

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The term “LGBT” was invented for the purpose of political activism around the early 90s. The “LGBT community” does not exist except as a political concept. It’s striking how different lesbians vs gays operate socially. E.g. in Chicago “boystown” on a Friday night is 95%+ gay males, prominent drinking/light drug use, high level of flirtatious sexual energy and casual sex. There is nothing at all like this among lesbians. (Or just look at Grindr)

When I lived in Chicago, the lesbians seemed to cluster northwest of Boystown. There was one Swedish restaurant (on Foster?) that was famous for lingonberries where the clientele looked like about half lesbians and seemed to resent the straight customers in their preserve. But it was all very low key.

Lesbians had lots of intense softball games along the lakefront while the gay men mostly sunbathed.

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The spelling "bigotted" make me think it rhymes with besotted.

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How is "LGBT talent" a thing? What is the actual question here? People who have talent because they are LGBT? Inspite of? Have been discriminated against? What the heck are we talking about???

I’d guess that are a number of papers of the form:

[slice of LGBT community] has disproportionate representation or success in [industry or company type] due to [reason]

And you could imagine a bunch of testable reasons like: overt discrimination; different family dynamics (number of children/pregnancies); preferring to enter/avoid industries with existing high/low LGBT percentage; an industry clustering in coastal cities.

So you are translating "talent" into "how discrimination impacts business success". That is a weird translation to me but maybe that is what Tyler had in mind. Not to mention the fact that I see no real benefit in study this kind of thing in the first place...

In my head anyway, I think I more translated “wanting pieces about LGBT talent” to “wanting information about where that talent flows, and why”. Presumably for purposes of better mining that talent (under the banner of Progress Studies).

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The big difference is that lesbians and gays tend to have quite different focuses due to differences strongly correlated with their personalities, such as figure skater vs. golfer.

You can learn a lot about professions that attract gay men, by looking at AIDS deaths in the 1980s and 1990s: e.g., men's figure-skating was devastated, as was choreography.

men's figure-skating was devastated,

Ronnie Robertson died around that time, but he'd been retired for around 40 years. The big names in men's figure skating were the two Brians, Boitano and Orser. Both are still very much alive and apparently healthy. Did you have someone else in mind?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1996/01/07/skating-community-hit-hard-by-aids/33a7bf72-44c2-421e-b8b3-55d3f31fe09c/

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From the New York Times:

FIGURE SKATING; AIDS Deaths Tear at Figure-Skating World
By Filip Bondy
November 17, 1992, Section A, Page 1Buy Reprints

In the last 12 months, three world- class Canadian figure skaters have died of AIDS. Another Canadian skater, Dennis Coi, a former junior world champion, died in 1987 of the same disease. John Curry of Britain, a former Olympic champion also suffering from AIDS, returned last month to his home in England to spend the remainder of his life.

The sport has been rocked hard by the illness, in stoic silence, in an Olympic year usually reserved for gold medals and triumphant tours that showcase nothing more controversial than triple jumps. So now figure skating is left with the task of educating its anxious athletes and avoiding the publicity that might damage this theatrical, marketing-driven sport.

"It's been devastating," said Tracy Wilson of Canada, who won a bronze medal in ice dancing in the 1988 Winter Olympics with Rob McCall, who died of AIDS last November. "I've lost three skating friends to AIDS, and you can safely assume there are others out there who have the disease and aren't talking about it."

Am I the only analyst to ever use number of AIDS deaths to do reality checks on which stereotypes are valid about which occupations attract gay men?

One of the more interesting aspects you can use it to find new stereotypes: e.g. male golfers are really not very gay at all.

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That is another interpretation of "talent": career choice. Again, no idea if that's what Tyler is talking about...

Economics of.

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In addition to what others have said, there's the comparative advantage you have if you don't have, or manage to correct for, prejudices against them.

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For a split second I read this as "Economics of LGBT talent beg"...which of course made much more sense to me in this 2nd decade of our current century.

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A difficulty is that almost half (or more) of LGBT are not out. Who knew that Tim Cook was gay, until 2014. He built the most successful supply chain, ever, back when he was not out. I sit in the same pew every Sunday at church. The stained glass window to my right is of St John, depicted with an obvious effeminate face. That window has been there over 100 years. Of course, he was the disciple Jesus loved.

But then you're talking about the economics of Christian talent or the benefit of repressing sin in favor of virtue.

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When I first read about Tim Cook, his sexual preferences were reportedly well known inside Apple, but I don't think he had made that part of his personal life public. Given that he became CEO in 2011, your time line is simply wrong.

I've never worked for Apple or lived in the Bay Area, but I distinctly remember someone making an offhanded comment when Cook was promoted about how great it was that a gay man could become CEO of one of the world's largest corporations.

Consequently, I was very confused when, a couple years later, there was a minor kerfuffle over some talking head accidentally outing him on air. I had assumed all that time that he was openly gay.

'I had assumed all that time that he was openly gay.'

Peter Thiel was pretty much the same. Which makes it a bit harder to understand his burning desire for revenge against a media outlet, crowned by destroying it through secretly funding a lawsuit.

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If you read Walter Isaacson's huge 2011 bestseller "Steve Jobs" very carefully, you would find a part of one sentence that makes clear that Tim Cook is gay. I presume that Isaacson didn't want to feel that he'd covered up an interesting fact, but also didn't feel like he should make it obvious either.

Jobs' insiders were counter-stereotypical: the manufacturing guy was gay and the design guy was straight.

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Dear Tyler,
You know the people who comment here and how they react to these topics. Were you hoping for enlightenment?

There are other ways to reach Tyler. Not that this is one of them.

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Steve Sailor has some good stuff on Lesbians and Gays in Sports:

WNBA vs College Volleyball
Male Ice Skaters vs The PGA

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Huge fan of the blog. We met at politics and prose at your book signing in May. I had read this one before: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/irel.12075

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How about talents of whites, blacks, Orientals, females, Christians, Muslims ,,, ? How about oriental Christians, black Jews, white females?

What are we coming to?

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Slap a label on us. That's what academics do. Might as well talk about mental illness.

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See Black et al. in the Journal of Economic Perspectives 21(2), Spring 2007, pp. 53-70.

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In fact, October 11th is "National Coming Out Day". It could be Tyler has something to announce and felt in need of a little background material, a few witticisms and a sarcastic comment or two to accompany the announcement. Is there a more sarcastic, bitchier place to glean a few comments than the MR comments section? I think not.

Youtube.

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They dress well.

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I knew a number of senior executives at Marshall Fields in the early to late 80’s. They were all gay. A huge proportion of them succumbed to AIDS. I have long believed the economic impact of AIDS on the retail and fashion market decimated the talent in those industries, resulting in a significant number of company failures, including Fields.

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The word "talent" in my mind has always been a double entendre. One night in the 80s I was sitting in the bleachers at Fenway Park, and whenever a good-looking woman walked past, dozens of guys would chant "TAAAAHHlent! TAAAAHHlent!"

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Pensacola, FL leads the US, by far, in concentration of same-sex military veteran couples. This is from the Urban Institute's 2000 report on Gay Men and Lesbians in the U.S. Military. From the report's Executive Summary:

Gay men and lesbians have served in all military eras in the later part of the 20th century. In particular, military service rates for coupled lesbians far exceed rates for other women in every military era of the later 20th century. Nearly one in 10 coupled lesbians age 63-67 report that they served in Korea, compared with less than one in 100 of other women. Even in the most recent service period from 1990 to 2000, service rates among coupled lesbians age 18-27 are more than three times higher than rates among other women.

North Dakota, Hawaii, Alaska, Virginia, and Idaho have the largest proportion of veterans among same-sex couples. Men and women in same-sex couples in North Dakota are twice as likely to be a veteran than the national average. Among metropolitan areas, Pensacola, FL, Norfolk, VA, San Diego, CA, Dayton, OH, and Santa Rosa, CA, have the highest rates of veterans among same-sex couples. Pensacola's rate of 34 percent is more than three times the national average.

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