Russia fact of the day

As of 2018 nearly a third of all Russia’s medical facilities had no running water and more than half lacked hot water. Around 40% lacked central heating and in 35% the sewage didn’t work.

Source here.

Comments

Tech is so much more critical to national infrastructure than things such as running hot water.

(And honestly, the less you know about Russian practices in terms of toilets/sewage, the better.)

I can definitely affirm to that second point.

Care to elaborate? I'm intrigued.

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Virtual defecation is no substitute for the real thing. Also, in Minecraft, there are corners... Ouch!

Digital infrastructure is vital, but it is kind of at the top of Maslow's hierarchy of infrastructure needs.

Don't have the slightest idea why central heating should be so important. Either way, it would be interesting to see how effective these clinics are. In the huge Russian immigration to Israel in the 1990s, we got a lot of Russian physicians. Sometimes their resourcefulness really amazed me. A lot of times their go-to prescriptions were not medications and a lot of times they worked great. Also counting the facilities is not a very useful metric. Imagine a country with 1000 large urban hospitals each serving 100K people and 1000 tiny clinics each serving 100 people. Half the clinics are primitive but 99.9% of the populace is served by a modern facility.

I recall reading a book with a parade of horribles where some Russian patient was being operated on, the electricity failed, the backup generator failed, and they died. But oh well, Moscow does not believe in tears.

I would not trust a Russian doctor anymore than a Greek doctor for anything but routine medical care.

Bonus trivia: they have robot surgeons in Greece now. You have to pay a little extra but it's probably well worth it, unless you want some novice stapling you.

ex-russian here:
in soviet/russian buildings most of the time it's central heating, so I'd be inclined to read that phrase as "40% lacked proper heating" and making do with room heaters or something else sh*tty. as much as I'd love to think they quickly set up a proper hvac for the building, from how generally uncommon that is and hospitals being government-run and bureaucratic I doubt that was often the case

Russia should spend less time trolling elections and spend more time on plumbing.

As a Russian, I can say that facilities in all the big cities are ok. Yeah, the problems start, if you consider derelict buildings in some god-forgotten places, that become barely populated, especially since the fall of USSR and turbulent 90s. Usually those facilities have not seen repair for 40-50 years and most likely lack everything.

Sometimes the places are so remote, nobody cares. A good example would be Black Dolphin prison facility (it is one of the most extreme places, for especially problematic prisoners). It is in the middle of nowhere. The prison itself has better water and electricity than small village nearby, where guards and their families live. If they actually need something more higher-tech, the best place to find it would be the prison itself.

There are just a lot of those places. Nobody wants them, nobody wants to think about them, nobody wants to be there.

The huge disparity between the resources allocated to rural clinics and those in cities seems to be a former USSR-wide phenomenon. I worked with a village clinic in Central Asia. We basically had nothing. No running water, few drugs on hand, one or two nurses and an absent doctor. I'd compare the city hospital with something close to U.S. 80s or 90s standards. Just completely different.

Somewhere I have a study that said of the almost 400,000 tons of meat distributed in the USSR, Moscow got 110,000. Or something like that.

Not just health care.

we recently read here that 10% of Moscow citizens live in communal apartments.
does that sound accurate to you?

Sounds reasonable. I am not sure if this 10% assessment is accurate, but at least, it is reasonable.

I do personally know many low-income families that have to buy/rent only a room in an apartment. I have also known many examples, where people rent all the rooms, except one in a multi-room apartment. What is this one room for? It is usually owned by some very old lady, that is either the owner, or at least some part of the family of the owner. In this way the old lady checks that nothing untoward happens in apartments, and renters check so that the lady doesn't kick the bucket due to some cardiac arrest or something, because she can't call an ambulance alone. It is cheaper to everyone involved.

yes, weighing by the number of facilities instead of by throughput is pretty nonsensical. in the smallish russian city I'm familiar with it's common practice to shuttle many of the more serious patients to the big city ~100 miles away, even though the small city for historical reasons does have an extensive hospital of its own, just not so well resourced anymore. that would exacerbate the mismatch between those two weightings even more.
WSJ doesn't cite the source unfortunately but I strongly suspect they are talking about government-run healthcare facilities, while there was a proliferation of various private facilities over the last decade in the bigger cities at least.

It almost sounds as if the Communists have taken over.

In Soviet Russia, healthcare doesn't care about you!

The KGB was rigorous in acting against such disinformation being spread in the degenerate western media.

I suppose it depends on the meaning of "medical facilities". No, I'm not defending Russia, its policies, or its economy, I'm repeating my criticism of Twitter as a medium for discussing any issue, here, in Russia, or anywhere. Pithy statements serve only one purpose: to get attention. We are an attention starved people, starting with the number one attention-seeker himself, Trump.

There has likely never been a more articulate & accurate statement on global current events...…….

Shrug, it sounds like standard "I reject the message because I can't get past the messenger."

Just like people who wail "not the NYT!"

That's a great point. No one should ever consider the source of any information.

Really keen insight by you. Keep it up!

Twitter was not the source, just as the NYT is rarely the source.

And sometimes of course Twitter is just genius.

https://twitter.com/arawnsley/status/1277448675120250880?s=19

the newwoketimes.con is doing most of the (selective) wailing.
todays histrionic headline
"feeling like death inside a Houston hospital"
but no mention of 85 people getting shot in newwokecity or yet another
"summer of love shooting"
point out the newwoketimes.con overt bias is not "wailing"
its a hobby!

"As of 2018 nearly a third of all Russia’s medical facilities had no running water and more than half lacked hot water. Around 40% lacked central heating and in 35% the sewage didn’t work."

Meanwhile, under President Captain Bolsonaro,Brazil built great field hospitals, stockpiled choroquine and overcame the COVID-19 crisis.

Upper Volta with rockets.

Black South Africans owned more cars than Soviet citizens did. They probably had more running water, telephones and TV than Soviet Central Asians too. It is hard to escape the conclusion that the Soviet system was set up to liberate Germany and did not give a damn about how much suffering the Russians had to go through to do it.

"They probably had more running water, telephones and TV than Soviet Central Asians too."

It would be easier to care about that if Central Asians had had, say, schools or hospital under their tribal chieftains or under the czars. All things considered, Soviet power liberated Central Asians from feudal social structures.

And turned them into serfs on giant cotton plantations. It seems that being forced to pick cotton isn't always a bad thing.

Mind you, Black South Africans also lacked schools and hospitals under their chieftains too. Do you also think colonialism and Apartheid liberated them too?

Well, it certainly improved their condition materially, even as they were marginalized politically. South Africa and Rhodesia were the best SSA majority nations in terms of access to healthcare, educations, consumer goods etc. This does not excuse the huge differences compared to the White population, but it is not nothing, especially when we know very well what happened in other countries and what happened in Rhodesia after it became Zimbabwe.

"Mind you, Black South Africans also lacked schools and hospitals under their chieftains too. Do you also think colonialism and Apartheid liberated them too?"

And that is why I do not care which nationality/race or whatever is oppressing or being oppressed. It is wrong. Poland was neither a democracy nor a civilised country when the Germans and the Soviets invaded. Neither was Kuwait when Saddam's troops marched on. It doesn't matter. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Plumbing is not that difficult. I have known people in shacks, I have dunnit, and figure out running taps, toilet flush, home constructed septic. It is a world of PVC and tubes. A couple of empty steel barrels properly prepared makes good septic.

You need water supply which requires water purification is you don't provide waste water treatment. Paying workers to build water and sewer treatment systems cost too much, and the high costs kill jobs.

But do they have to pay for their healthcare?

I quickly looked at the source referenced above.
How do you cite as a source a
Twitter Account.

Does the Chicago Manual of Style Cover this?
Has Skrunk and White addressed this?

What does the Blue Book of legal citations
Say about this?

Is there a correct format
For citing my
Comments?

The source was not Twitter. The summary was via Twitter, the article was at the WSJ, and the sources were actually named healthcare workers in Russia.

Then why not link to the source? Does theTwitter account get data?

You know, guys, w I like this blog very much, but let's face it. We, libertarians, sometimes get much deserved flack for only stressing the evil gocernments do. Maybe we should stress the good things, too. Many countries have made amazing government-led progress lately. A few years ago, I watched a The Simpsons episode ("Blame it on Lisa", if memory serves right) about Brazil under socialist Fernando Henrique Cardoso's regime. The country was chaotic, with monkeys taking over the streets, widespread poverty, institutionalized corruption and rampant lawlessness. A few months ago, before the pandemics hit, I spent two weeks in Rio de Janeiro City. You would not believe how much the country has changed. Under President Captain Bolsonaro, rule of law has been restored, sweeping economic reforms have been introduced, Chinese investments are on the rise, extreme poverty and crime are almost things of the past.

Okay, awful troll, but interesting that it is the only comment that actually connects to "state capacity."

You have a pretty good point, sir. Many countries we are used to call "underdeveloped" or worse have had a much better perform in this COVID-crisis than America. Laos, under General Secretary Bounnhang Vorachith's correct leadership, has experienced no COVID-19-related deaths while, under Trump, America, the richest country in History, is #1 in such deaths. I don't get it. We put a man on the Moon.

Then doesn't this suggest that how many lives have been lost to Covid-19 isn't based primarily on medical preparedness?

In 2009/10, not only did Japan and South Korea only have 100 and 200 H1N1 deaths respectively while the U.S. had 8,000 to 18,000, a poorer China had 700 deaths, Vietnam had 50 deaths, Cambodia had six deaths, and Laos just one death.

Part of the difference could be the way deaths were counted considering the U.S. used a computer model which if used by Australia would have increased deaths from the reported 100 to 200, depending on the agency, to 1,400. Adjusted for population size, that would be the equivalent of 18,000 U.S. deaths and right at the range of American deaths instead of being far lower.

I think it is more about state capability. China, Brazil and Laos have built lots of state capability lately while America allowed its infrastructure to decay, its bureaucracy to get ossificated and its state to fall prey to special interests.

The White House has blocked Anthony S. Fauci, the nation’s top infectious-disease expert and director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, from some appearances that he has requested to do in recent weeks, according to two people familiar with the matter. White House aides have argued that television interviewers often try to goad Fauci into criticizing the president or the administration’s approach, and that Fauci is not always good about “staying on message,” in the words of a senior administration official. Aides did allow Fauci to appear on CNN recently for a town hall, the official said.

That will fix it.

No seriously, all joking aside, this is banana republic territory. This is totalitarian suppression territory.

>according to two people familiar with the matter.

"anonymous sources"

Ahh truly the most newsworthy folks.

This is highly unlikely to be even remotely true.

See also

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/media/anthony-fauci-tv-interviews/index.html

See also

https://khn.org/news/watch-are-administration-medical-experts-muzzled/

Those claims were laughed off the political stage back when they were made. I guess it's a good sign when all you have left is to recycle old garbage from a while ago to feed your TDS.

Thiago, have you ever been to royal albert hall? we went once f &
saw Van Morrison . is it true Bolsanaro caught the covid?

My name is Mr. Hall. I have read Nrazil's President Captain Bolsonaro has gone through several COVID-19 tests. All returned negative. He is not ill.

Something wrong with that "fact". Consider follow:

That numbers discussed in Russian-speaking media and communities around month ago. Turns out - numbers right, but includes technical buildings, which shouldn’t be visited aside from service purpose. Also, people don't realize Soviet Era medical facilities is excellent conditions, but sometimes, but not always, have a little bit old equipment. Yes, some remote places may have odd medical buildings, but that geographical problem which is hard to understand to Europeans or urbanized Americans.

Again, decades after USSR fall most of ex-USSR economies faced tremendous economic downturn, so I personally don't expect flourishing medical facilities, still all the Soviet time facilities was planned very well, and built appropriately. Frankly, how many new hospitals was built in EDC per capita in past 30 years.

And in terms of equipment, have to say, some if not most medical procedures don’t change much from Soviet era times. BUT of course, several scientifical advances in medicine required hi-tech may not be installed everywhere in ex-USSR countries, still in some areas like oncology it should be improved as soon as possible.

Also, consider that, just for example, eye vision laser correction is one source for tourism income for Russia. Will people go to place like described in "source" for eye surgery from other country?

The GOP and Trump are working hard to increase the number of US facilities without running water, heated water, sewer, doctors, nurses, equipment, by intentionally not paying for medical facilities and staff in rural America, which ironically vote overwhelmingly for the GOP.

Their argument is the cost of paying workers is too high, and the high costs kill jobs.

dude you're making it sound like the US is the same statist sh*t as Russia with government in charge of everything.
that's just not true, even after years of dems trying to move it further in that direction.
for now, where there are paying clients, there will be reasonably well-functioning healthcare system.

The author of the tweet should learn to distinguish sewage from sewerage. It's the latter that doesn't work.

A third of Russian health facilities are clinics in depopulated rural areas that have been abandoned for 20 years but are still on the Ministry of Health’s books.

This is just Russia being Russia. It was like this under the tsars. One could find modern facilities in Moscow, St. Petersburg and the like, but move east and it all fell apart. The Soviets actually improved things here and there, but as in the US, once the Cold War ended, improving things fell out of fashion. Remember that the USSR and Russia were the same thing. Hitler forgot and had his ass handed to him in Kursk, Stalingrad and then later Berlin.

In the US, we don't let our medical facilities fall apart like this. We just close them. This is particularly common in states that didn't go for the ACA Medicaid expansion. In my town, we have a relatively nice hospital, but we are in a blue state with lots of cross subsidies and expanded Medicaid.

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