Pleonasms are abundant. "I done done it" (have done it or did do it). "Durin' the while." "In this day and time." "I thought it would surely, undoubtedly turn cold." "A small, little bitty hole." "Jane's a tol'able big, large, fleshy woman." "I ginerally, usually take a dram mornin's." "These ridges is might' nigh straight up and down, and, as the feller said, perpendic'lar."
Everywhere in the mountains we hear of biscuit-bread, ham-meat, rifle-gun, rock-clift, ridin'-critter, cow-brute, man-person, women-folks, preacher-man, granny-woman and neighbor-people. In this category belong the famous double-barreled pronouns: we-all and you-all in Kentucky and you-uns and we-uns in Carolina and Tennessee. (I have even heard such locution as this: "Let's we-uns all go over to youerunses house.")
That is from the often quite interesting Our Southern Highlanders: A Narrative of Adventure in the Southern Appalachians and a Study of Life Among the Mountaineers, by Horace Kephart, recommended to me by a loyal MR reader.
To think that "cow-brute" is a pleonasm is truly very excellent. I might add that the discussion of the triple and quadruple and indeed quintuple negative is of interest: "I ain't never seen no men-folks of no kind do no washin'."
I ain’t never never read no better post, never.
Why do most English speakers refuse to use y’all. It’s simple, obvious and fills a need. I’m a northerner living in Chicago and I find myself using because there is no better alternative
This thread needs more Captain Pleonasm:
http://drboli.wordpress.com/2007/12/17/captain-pleonasm-and-the-return-of-the-brevitrons/
http://drboli.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/captain-pleonasm-faces-the-future/
Pleonasms are abundant. (but not plentiful…more than many, but not many, many occurrences…in the end, less than the pleonasm fans report)
Really? Really really? Most languages prolly more complex than these technical definitions presume.
“I done done it” …is poetry an I do likes it…musical…not stomped lifeless by the rule-governed…who have no ears for any difference from this: “I done it.”
(have done it or did do it)…iz so boring. Isso…is not really doing it.
Wiki was not a help here…get busy you wordsmiths and rewrite that entry.
Is “yinz” from Pittsburgh? I went to high school in rural Western NC, and had always thought it native to that region. Though, down there the pronunciation is closer to “yuhns.”
(the contraction of “you ones,” for all those who don’t know. As in: “Would any of yuhns be up for a game of baseball?)
I have also been fascinated by the the use of non-specific pronouns (“it” rather than “he” or “she”) to refer to both infants and the elderly.
Don’t you a going an maken fun of my people. Thems my clan and I’m proud of themuns.
WW2 brought people from all over to California and I grew up hearing this kind of talk.
I need to note that some of the best people I know are from these areas. Great folks and great friends.
Now the immigration into California is from all over the world but I am not in elementary school and can’t pick up the new sounds and words coming into use. Tis sad.
Mmm. Pleonastic. Love that word.
“Pleonasms are abundant.”
A common example is “tuna fish.” Funny though, we seldom hear “chicken bird.”
I’m not sure that “cow-brute” is a pleonasm. A cow is female, a bull is male, so what’s the singular of cattle, if you don’t know what sex it is? Round these parts (UK & NZ), the correct term is a cattle-beast.
(Admittedly, common usage is lazy, and many would call it a cow and hope no farmers are around to question their ability to tell boy from girl.)
I wonder if they came up with “rational choice.”
This reminds me of John Nash’s characters statement in ‘A Beautiful Mind’: “Terrified, mortified, petrified, stupified by you”.
John,
At least the quintuple negative is still logically a negative. It is when you have those even-numbered
negatives that want to be logically negative that you have our real mountain folk coming on like a bunch
of French or Russian speakers, where negatives are negative logically even if they are even-numbered.
Damned furriners!
apikoros is correct. What’s missing is the “d” at the end. It should be rifled gun.
Y’all can make fun of us Scots-Irish all you care to, be we do know our guns!
As the southerns here say “y’all” makes perfect sense. In english you does not specify a crowd or a single individual – this is a weakness. “y’all” clearly specifies a crowd. So when a waitress at a southern restaurant asks each person their order she will use “you”, when addressing the dining group as a whole “y’all”.
In the North of England many people use the word “youse” in this way.
I’m from Yorkshire where some people still use thou and thee. It makes sense.
“Why do most English speakers refuse to use y’all. It’s simple, obvious and fills a need. I’m a northerner living in Chicago and I find myself using because there is no better alternative”
I’d heard, living in the south, that the northern equivalent was “you’se guys”, but that’s just heresay as far as I know. “You all” as the you-plural is pretty useful.
I always got a kick out of using ‘ustacould’ while I was living in England.
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