Thursday assorted links

Comments

#2 "....The murder of George Floyd...." Immediately stopped reading. Not proven, not by a long shot, and most definitely and affirmatively biased and presumptive. Period.

#3 "Those who can't do, teach." vs. "Those who can do, still sometimes teach, but often see the importance of $$$"

#4 I grew up in what I think most people would describe as an 'enriching' environment. My definition of that would be frequent access to new experiences (like foreign travel and languages) at a young age as well as diverse access to different locations and cultures within my own society (my family was a high-ranking military one, which means we did move quite frequently). I was also exposed to and learned to love the arts from an early age. In my opinion, nothing about the frequency or monotony of that early access was neutral or negative, it was net positive. The rub/contradiction I think comes from people's different idea of what 'enrichment' entails. If you idea of enrichment is send Johnny or Susie to 'early childhood development' center, than no, I do not count that as 'enriching'.

The Hennepin County Medical Examiner’s Office writes this - Manner of death: Homicide. They don't use murder, they just give their professional opinion. I'm sure that what they write is most definitely and affirmatively biased and presumptive in your eyes.

Eyes that can watch a man die in police custody without at any point being able to judge that action being murder - or manslaughter, if you prefer a different form of homicide.

I stand by my statement. In your eyes I'm sure that the medical examiner's word is more than good enough than a trial - with presumption of innocence - to lock up Chauvin and throw away the key. He is entitled to due process, with the presumption of innocence, especially considering the mitigating circumstances (like Floyd's toxicology report....I mean since your throwing the medical examiner at me...) and Floyd's criminal history.

Feel free to join the mob (sounds like you already have), I on the other hand will not.

Chauvin also has incriminating evidence against him including a past history and a medical report that says homicide. Nobody is joining the mob. He's in jail and will see a courtroom. You on the other hand turn into an emotional snowflake over words you disagree with. Truth doesn't care about your feelings.

"emotional"

What about constitutional court procedure and presumption of innocence is 'emotional'? If anything, the urge for mob-justice is the 'emotional' response, not mine.

The part where you stopped reading because words. That's emotional.

You mean the part where a piece of written material starts with a basic fallacy, supporting the supposition the rest is the same.

Sorry, my time is valuable. I'd much rather spend it arguing with people like you.

Look I'm no charming pen pal but when Tyler recommends something it's worth a read once over. Stopping mid-sentence is just bad form. You will never understand other people and your comments become badly uninformed.

"...but when Tyler recommends something it's worth a read once over."

As Scott Alexander and this blog have routinely referenced, that would equate to 'an appeal to authority'. Look, I like Tyler and Alex a lot and I enjoy this blog (more so now that Scott has been 'cancelled'....) a whole bunch, but I disagree that "...when Tyler recommends something it's worth a read once over." No one bats 1000, and there are large numbers of the daily links that are in my opinion manure. I think that if you asked Tyler he would also agree that not every link he posts - hindsight 20/20 - always meets even his own standards. No one would.

So no, I disagree that piece was worth reading in its entirety, especially when you consider that what parts I scanned rather quickly after coming to the conclusion 'it wasn't worth my time' were quite cliched and certainly not original considering the current context. It was yet again another piece in the vein of '(WWJD) What would Jesus do'. These kinds of thing are being done to death right now. Absolutely positively un-original and most definitely not creative.

It is not bad form.

It’d be great if you two never commented here again. Thanks

Also stopped reading at that point.

Adam Smith was an economist. He would have asked what the rate of death per police encounter was for blacks vs nonblacks, and then he would have asked what the rate of death by police was relative to the black death by homicide rate.

He died from something. He had a bad heart and was taking dangerous drugs. But our first thought when we hear hoofbeats shouldn't be zebras. Can a person who is being choked to death say "I can't breathe"??? Of course not so that rules out choking and brings his health and drugs into the most likely cause of death.

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I love how people who Want To Be Taken Seriously On Justice Issues cannot possibly be bothered to learn the definition of words like "homicide" and "murder."

Sure thing Spanky, just use them interchangeably. We're all ears!

Homicide and murder is used interchangeably in everyday speech so it's fair game in a blog post. Your beef is with the English language, son.

Maria Pia Paganelli is a university professor and as such should be capable of using language as precisely as your average dimwit journalist.

like that frittata margeret brennan from the washingtonpost who
says chunking bricks at police is called "looting"

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Probably the jury will not hear about the prior bad acts. That is as it should be, since many jurors, like Shapiro here, have trouble understanding the idea that he is accused of a crime, not of bad character.

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Chauvin was cited a few times for things like using bad language in front of children. Hardly a sign of a bad character.

But the media needs a conviction! After all, Biden can 't win in his basement otherwise.

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'In your eyes I'm sure that the medical examiner's word is more than good enough than a trial '

Of course it is. The medical examiner lists all the causes, and when combined with the actions of a person that led to the death of another, the result is homicide.

You seem extremely confused on this point. The officer could well be found innocent of committing murder because the death he caused was justified in the eyes of a jury of his peers. Or at least the eyes of someone such as yourself. That the actions are homicide is part of the public record, regardless.

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" He is entitled to due process, with the presumption of innocence..."

According to our legal system, yes, but nothing stops individuals from forming their own opinions. For example, a gun can be tied to a murder, proving who shot the victim, and yet be inadmissible as evidence allowing someone obviously responsible for the death to go free. To this day, many people don't agree with the verdict in the OJ case. Also, in some trials, the jury itself will have members who didn't agree with verdict. So, whether the officers are convicted does not determine our opinion of what happened, it means the government can't imprison them because the prosecution couldn't convince a jury they were legally culpable. Everyday juries get things wrong, but that's the system.

But I especially love the fact that you're waiting for the toxicology report. Did the officers know his toxicology? Obviously not, otherwise we wouldn't be waiting fo the report. Even if the report is clean, the officers will claim they thought he was drunk or some such. It comes down to observed behaviour.

A British politician once said on the telly "Everyone knows two things about the OJ case. He did it, and he'll get off". (From memory, but that was the gist of it.)

She was right, wasn't she?

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I’ve heard this argument before, and I hate it. Just because innocence is presumed in legal matters doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be presumed personally. You *can* prefer to assume guilt without all the evidence—sure—but that doesn’t mean you *should*.

This is why I think everyone should take a stats class early in their education, so they can learn to reject the null hypothesis only under very specific circumstances. That not including a single video followed by the opinions of the mob. The devil is in the details, and morons ignore the details.

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Evidence as a legal term involves a number of issues that don't pertain to someone judging a person's guilt. So, when you say all the evidence, you can mean that's allowed in a trial, or something like before everything is known, which can change indefinitely, and can never be known to a certainty. I'm not sure what you mean, because there's no precision to your argument.

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Homicide =/= murder. There is justifiable homicide, as the jury deemed the killing of Trayvon Martin by Zimmerman. Your conflation of these two terms is inaccurate and annoying.

You seem to feel that actions leading to the death of another depend on the vocabulary, not the actions.

The vocabulary reflects what occurs after the death, and part of that framework includes the criminal process, as is occurring. That the death in Floyd's case was ruled by the medical examiner as homicide is part of the public record. What a jury will determine is a judgment that will be made in the future.

Well no. You just don't know what homicide means. To quote Blackstone:

NOW homicide, or the killing of any human creature, is of three kinds; justifiable, excusable, and felonious. The first has no share of guilt at all; the second very little; but the third is the highest crime against the law of nature, that man is capable of committing.

I. JUSTIFIABLE homicide is of diverse kinds.

1. SUCH as is owing to some unavoidable necessity, without any will, intention, or desire, and without any inadvertence or negligence, in the party killing, and therefore without any shadow of blame.
....
AGAIN: in some cases homicide is justifiable, rather by the permission, than by the absolute command of the law: either for the advancement of public justice, which without such indemnification would never be carried on with proper vigor; or, in such instances where it is committed for the prevention of some atrocious crime, which cannot otherwise avoided.

2. HOMICIDES, committed for the advancement of public justice, are; 1. Where an officer, in the execution of his office, either in a civil or criminal case, kills a person that assaults and resists him.11 2. If an officer, or any private person, attempts to take a man charged with felony, and is resisted; and, in the endeavor to take him, kills him.12 This is of a piece with the old Gothic constitutions, which (Stiernhook informs us13) “surem, si aliter capi non posset, occidere permittunt” [“a thief may be killed if he cannot otherwise be taken”].

Floyd's death was a homicide but it was not murder. No sane jury would even consider manslaughter.

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for those who went to overpriced sociology schools
homicide doesn't equal murder
some homocides are murder
some homocides are not murder
murders are homocides

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I forgot to mention - as an addendum to my previous response - what will you do if Chauvin is acquitted? What if a jury decides that it wasn't 'murder? What if his actions were downgraded to manslaughter?

This is the great fear from your side, isn't it. That just like Zimmerman, or that officer in the Michael Brown case, or the NYPD officer in the Eric Garner case, it is proven - in a court of law by jury - that those 'homicides' were in fact NOT murder, but were completely justified by the exigent circumstance?

I will ask the question, for anyone to answer?

WHAT WILL YOU DO IF/WHEN CHAUVIN IS ACQUITTED OF THE 'MURDER' OF GEORGE FLOYD?

"Duh, if the court says so, it's so."

This is brilliant.

Acquitting him of murder isn't going to mean it was justified. There's plenty of space in between the two. Murder is going to require some sort of intent by Chauvin, which is going to be hard to get since mind-reading doesn't exist and there's not much evidence of what he was trying to do with his knee on Floyd's neck for so long.

However, just because a jury ends up looking at that and says he was a reckless idiot but didn't mean to kill the guy doesn't mean his actions were completely justified. His actions were clearly wrong but manslaughter is the obvious charge he's likely guilty of.

If the Murder charge is just to scare him into taking a manslaughter plea that seems like normal prosecution tactics, but I am concerned they're really going after Murder because that's what the mob wants.

Many weeks ago I said in this comments section that manslaughter was far more the appropriate charge. I still think that. But I agree with you, that's not what the mob wants. They want pre-meditated 'murder'....that is a losing proposition.

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Agree. I note, though, that 'there's not much evidence' is wrong---we infer, both in justice systems and in our daily lives, people's intent from their behavior in the context of the circumstances we observe it. In fact, that is about all we have to determine intent, and it is deemed evidence of intent regularly.

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Chauvin was charged with murder 2, murder 3, and Manslaughter 2.

My guess is the Attorney General wants at least murder 3 (the reckless negligence version of murder). That was the verdict in the Mohamed Noor case.

It's worth noting - the other 3 officers were charged with aiding and abetting Murder 2 and Manslaughter 2. They walk on a murder 3 conviction. Between that and the threat of a jury coming back with the murder 2 - my guess is Chauvin plea-bargains to the murder 3 without a trial.

It's worth noting that a common tactic of DA's against groups they want to punish is to charge M2 for one person, and then charge everyone else in the group of aiding and abetting in a murder. The ACLU hates this, of course, because it's an easy way to put people in jail.

But in order for it to work, it has to be M2. if you accidentally kill someone (M3), then you cannot charge anyone for aiding and abetting because the death was an accident, and how can you aid in an accidental death?

That is why Chauvin was charged with M2.

The real concern here is that the jury members are going to be scared out of their mind to acquit if the evidence doesn't support the charges, and worry that if they vote to acquit their house will be burned to the ground. Which seems a very real possibility at this point.

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or
there could be more "mostly" peaceful protests1or even "unrest"2
"Greater New York Black Lives Matter president Hawk Newsome warned that if the United States “doesn’t give us what we want, then we will burn down this system and replace it.”

1 newwoketimes.con
2 narrativepublicradio

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Better the court of law than that of public opinion. This was illustrated very clearly in the Michael Brown case.

And not in many others. Geez, it's good to see all of you court absolutists out in force. When that horrible, "left wing" decision comes down, I know you will not be criticizing it, and instead will be just saying "Yep, that's it, that's what happened".

I remember vividly in my mind - like it was yesterday - the massive violent protests and riots when OJ Simpson was acquitted.

It was horrible. White violence the likes which I have never before seen. You remember too? Do you?

Whites riot at the ballot box.

Their intentions and desires are no more admirable or disgraceful than any other groups'.

So, you are arguing the 'means'. Or rather, in most cases, the 'tree' for the 'forest'.

And you are standing on a loose and eroding sandbank in a raging river as to the "protests" equals "rioting" thingy. Everyone had a chance to watch or participate real-time, and the protests themselves were mainly not riots, and the riots that occurred were often dissociated from the protests. And the protests were taken up by many people who did not riot, do not support rioting, and don't feel required to support any particular position the protest leaders have on any subject. Which is why the "oh my gawd, communists!" pearl-clutching falls on deaf ears

"And you are standing on a loose and eroding sandbank in a raging river as to the "protests" equals "rioting" thingy."

We're done talking. I'm officially putting you in 'the ends justify means camp' of non-rationals. I'm wasting my time.

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"Whites riot at the ballot box."

-1, that's a terrible equivocation.

its like the left has a long list of stupid memes
and they just pick & apply them at random.
its the same with fake psychiatric diagnoses

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The first medical examiner’s report indicated that he did not die from asphyxiation but then came Baden and a new report from the medical examiner. Seems sort of fishy. I would not be surprised if he is acquitted, too.

'Seems sort of fishy.'

Yep - having actual video evidence demonstrating that the written report was inaccurate, let us be extremely generous in the term, tends to do that. It is much harder to whitewash events these days, when so much video is available.

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'what will you do if Chauvin is acquitted? What if a jury decides that it wasn't 'murder? What if his actions were downgraded to manslaughter?'

Exactly the same thing as if he were found guilty, which is basically nothing. The justice system works as it works, and I have no problem with that.

Unlike you, it appears. At least when it looks like in this case, a cop responsible for killing someone else is unlikely to be found innocent.

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You mean the way a jury "proved" Rodney King was not brutally beaten despite video proof? How many Blacks you want to murder?

"How many blacks you want to murder?"

None. I don't have to. They 'murder' each other quite well enough for everyone to stomach as it is. It's strange though. I don't see quite the apoplexy over that as much as see frothing-at-the-mouth from people like you over mob-justice for an already convicted in-your-mind police officer.

At least they caught the guy. Dorn deserved better, cities need more like him.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/08/us/st-louis-man-arrested-shooting-retired-police-officer-david-dorn/index.html

...Never corner the Dorner!

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its not the role of juries to "prove"
that is the role of the prosecution

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6. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. Can't we just move along without "culture" and "genetics" dominating the discussion.

This is your response to a great interview? Amazing. This was a good survey of the current literature on the subject. He Interesting how Clark quickly skirted the more inflammatory issues and went straight into the research.

Also: very brave of Tyler to post this video.

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6. Greg needs to invest in a good mic.

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#5 As an Armenia-American living in the shadow of the Turkey-promoted Armenian Genocide and the horrors of the Russsian Empire and Soviet regimes in Armenia, I am deeply concerned about human rights and feel I must protest in the most strong ways against Trump' support to the Indian regime and the Administration's sad, criminal betrayal of our Pakistani, Brazilian and Ukrainian allies.

Thiagonian speaks.

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Thiago
Do you remember which canadian was worried we weren't gonna have enough covid 19 to test a vaccine

I am Mr. Melkonian, from Fresno, a Californian city.

I love how he thinks that people from Fresno are inclined to clarify that it is "a Californian city."

Well Occam suggests you should Just think of him as some junior officer in a PLA political cyber ops unit, sitting in a basement in Beijing. For that, he does pretty well.

Pretty well!, that's slander. Thiago is the best troll on the site by far.

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Not everyone knows where Fresno is.

have you visited New York (a New Yorkian city)?

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Post-secondary enrollments are steady as June winds down, hoorah hooray.

As June winds down, SARS-CoV-2 is not receding across summer months in the Northern Hemisphere as predicted and as hoped short months ago: simultaneously, our most populous states report surges in case loads and hospitalizations.

As case loads and hospitalizations surge even before June ends, we've no way of knowing just how awful July is going to turn out: could be as bad as April, could be much much worse, and if July does turn out awful, its awfulness could well bleed into August.

Will populous state schools have empty dorms to boast? Empty classrooms? Empty libraries? Empty labs? Empty student unions? Empty campuses?

Last spring, "only" half of post-secondary semesters (or single quarters) were lost when campuses de-populated: how will post-secondary schools fare if (as begins to seem likely or possible) the entire academic year gets scrapped? (Back-up plans, anyone?) Have university administrators and faculty had time to implement "distance learning" for ALL students enrolled in ALL majors and ALL classes? (What might the quality of instruction consist of consequently? The qualities signified by future transcripts may well be at stake!)

July should prove an informative month: unless our pharma alchemists shout "EUREKA!" by month's end, I wouldn't think the prospects for any substantive academic year spent on any college campus are too good.

Welcome, in-coming freshmen, to the world gifted to us all by our global elites.

Liberty University stayed open and had no outbreak.

Thanks for the heads-up, I had not heard that.

If you should also know:

How sternly or strictly are distancing and mask protocols being enforced at Liberty?

What are the campus's and Lynchburg's R numbers, respectively?

How does Liberty's status compare to that of Randolph College and Lynchburg College?

(Comparisons with other Virginia colleges and universities, esp. UVA, might be apt, also.)

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Liberty University complied with all relevant health regulations, including reducing its on-camppus student population from 16,000 to 1,000. They did a great job, too. Sad that so few people seemed to learn how well Liberty Univ was able to cope through strict social distancing, and not actually holding classes with students in a classroom.

"While some other schools locked the doors to dorms after spring break and as the pandemic spread, Falwell said he let 1,500 students return to dorms under strict rules of social distancing. Most returned because they had elderly parents at home they wanted to keep safe, or they didn’t have internet, or they were international students.

They learned online, and eagerly, as the school logged its 100,000th “distance” student. They ordered out as the school restaurants turned to takeout meals.

Still, some, especially in the media, raised alarms that little was being done to prevent infection.

But the state health department conducted two surprise inspections and found everything in order and in compliance with Gov. Ralph Northam’s rules. “All operations appeared to be in compliance with the governor’s emergency order,” said Jim Bowles, a state health manager before critical stories in the New York Times and ProPublica appeared." www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/liberty-university-wrongly-declared-a-virus-disaster-now-the-model-to-follow-falwell

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Why do females get so often engaged in the BLM movement? Is it because it's shallow so they see a chance to jump and so try to teach a lesson to high status men? What signal are they trying to give?

Childless women have powerful mothering instinct that does not have an outlet. Thus, they buy dogs and cats. Some buy pitpulls because they are "misunderstood" and they get a stronger oxytocin rush when the "rehabilitate" them. When the pitbull bites a stranger, they make excuses for it to justify their continued mothering of this sad creature.

Childless women have all sorts of pets, some of them are even human.

+1

Put extremely well. Saved for later.

Sexless police have powerful urges that does not have an outlet. Thus they take their incel rage against hapless civilians. When a cop shoots an unarmed stranger, they make excuses to justify their sexless existence of a sad creature.

Incel cops have all sorts of targets, some of them are even human.

....and here's ad hominem attack #2. Number 3? Where are you?

EE, you realize he just copied the prior comment you lauded? You aren't that incoherent, are you? Though your comments about court decisions determining 'what' people did betray a stunning lack of clarity.

Incorrect. Most police are not 'sexless'. Chauvin was in fact married to Ms. Minneapolis. Anon's statement was on the other hand entirely believable with significant psychological support within the literature. Nona's response by 'flipping words' was an emotional ad hominem attack and yours is borderline...but I'll let it slide.

She divorced him so quickly so that must have been a rocky relationship and probably sexless. There might be legs to this incel theory. May be she was into black guys?

Thousands upon thousands of people suddenly wanting my husband dead, people calling my house with death threats, friends and colleagues I've known for years suddenly unwilling or unable to associate with me, and the media and soup-du-jour politicians siding with people that want my husband dead and my life made miserable because of guilt-by-association.

You're absolutely right. Why wasn't I a better woman in the vein of the Virgin Mary - a virtual female saint - and not be able to take pressure like that? It's been tearing me up inside really. I'm sorry Mr. Minneapolis. I'm sorry for not being 100% perfect in this, one of if not the most trying time in my life.

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There is no "significant psychological support within the literature" that "Childless women have powerful mothering instinct that does not have an outlet". Still less that it is a maternal instinct that drives women to buy pitbulls. It is shallow pop culture psychologizing. That is what Nona was mocking.

"It is shallow pop culture psychologizing. "

+1, yes, it's generally a bad idea to try and assume that you know what is going on in the head of someone else that you don't personally know very well. Hell, even then it's often completely wrong.

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Shallow and dismissive or not, at least it's not nasty and vicious and hate fuelled like the reply was.

(I find it funny honestly how Progs turn into "insufficient rigorous data" people when it suits, but then when you have things like the Shor and Wasow situation, data is secondary to the narrative already decided).

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The fact you have to make up excuses for not having a conscience ("oh, caring about police brutality is just a childless women thing") is telling. You know there is something fundamentally wrong with you and is trying to prevent other people from noticing.

....and here we go with ad hominem attack #1. It never fails. There is something fundamentally wrong with you, and your (and those like you....) fallback to ad hominem gives it right away.

Commenter 1: the actions of 50% of the population are best understood as neurotic expressions of their unmet needs

You: brilliant!

Commenter 2: Your perspective is best understood as a neurotic expression of your unmet needs

You: ad hominem invalidating your position! Ad hominem invalidating your position! *covers ears*

You have no argument. You know you have no argument. You know that I and we know you have no argument. You know that we know this and you know you don't care. Whatever help you sleep at night....I guess.

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@ J: I think the question is why women are so involved in these social justice movements compared to men. Women have more empathy than men? Women are more emotionally drawn to the downtrodden? I think that's a valid question. Feel free to share your opinions.

I forgot we also must throw in the childless aspect too. Childless women are more Liberal than women with families when one controls for many variables. Why?

Children provide a strong tether to reality, as most people with kids will readily tell you. Those without kids can more easily live in a fantasy world. Liberals, as we all know, tend to live in a fantasy world. QED. :)

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It's a safe space for achieving dominance. Look at all the videos of young white women verbally ripping into police officers (esp. Black officers), knowing the officers can't respond.

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In my opinion there's a big void of research on the psychological mechanisms that fundament left-wing thinking. What explains egalitarianism, social justice, climate protection? It's clear it's not rational thinking, there are way too many inconsistencies to be rationally justified. Left-wing leanings are a big mental disease.

oh, boy, Bigot on a roll today.

Please do cite for us the anti-left scholarship equivalent to mountain of scholarship on the authoritarian personality, xeno-, homo-, trans-phobias, etc. that reduce anyone deemed to be on the right to be suffering from some sort of neurosis/psychosis.

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Pretty sure this research does exist. Jonathan Haidt probably has it summarized, although I haven't read his stuff yet.

I don't think you go straight from personal beliefs and inclinations to policy platforms. Teddy Roosevelt, for instance, had a "right-wing" temperament but was concerned about the environment and economic inequality. The thing that connects him to modern liberals is not temperament or philosophy but rather a suspicion of big business.

The association of mainstream American conservatism with mostly laissez-faire attitudes toward environmentalism and climate protection is a relatively recent phenomenon. So is evangelical opposition to abortion. You would get more traction looking at culture and the history of the past 50 years to understand how things like abortion and climate change became so deeply partisan and divisive in the U.S.

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4. I would have called this "sargam" rather than "swaras" and would like to be corrected if I am misunderstanding the terms.

The seven swaras collectively are referred as sargam. So I think the original description is okay.

But the practice of naming the swaras as you sing them is sargam, is it not?

sargam is to Hindustani what swaras are to Karnatak music.

Thank you, that explains my confusion!

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Sagram is the equivalent of Western Solfege, it's a system of named scale degrees that are sung. Swara is each particular step and tone within Sagram the system, so: Sa, Re, Ga, etc.

Since these steps each have variations, the Swaras combine to create different tone-constellations that are the basis of raga.

But correct me if I'm wrong!

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This is not the first Indian adaptation of the 40th - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClAXd0itpsA

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Definitely include getting a cushy job at a private company.

Cushier than academia?

When I moved, as a young man, from academia to industry I found that I was used to working far harder than my new colleagues. They even commented on it: how do you get so much done?

Eventually I moved back again but not in expectation of an easy life.

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I am extremely confident that TC or AT would leap at the chance to have a title like executive vice president at a company already noted for its largesse in sponsoring them and their colleagues in various activities.

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3. "I would also note here that while being very fucking un-PC I have somehow managed to navigate this allegedly sensitive environment through the simple process of people knowing what I’m about. "

That guy really take his luck for granted, and underestimates how arbitrary and unpredictable targets of the PC mob are.

Well most of the people complaining about so-called PC seem to be a long time removed from academia, if they were ever in academia in the first place, and are going off of anecdotal media reports.

I also remember being pretty un-PC in school, making arguments like racial inequality is explained primarily by biology (granted this was a while ago, but it was also at a pretty progressive school that people were criticizing for being PC even then) and nothing bad ever happened to me.

Honestly, the political stance that I took for which I felt most threatened by people’s reactions was opposing the Iraq War and more generally arguing in favor of the Ron Paul blowback theory of terrorism. People would threaten to report me to the FBI and have me added to watch lists and the no-fly list. I recently saw a clip of Ron Paul debating Rudy Giuliani in 2008, where Ron Paul made that argument quite eloquently, and then Giuliani demanded an apology without addressing any of the substance of Ron Paul’s arguments. The entire Republican debate audience then booed Paul in a way that I have never seen any speaker get booed by a college campus crowd. So I maintain that right-wing patriotic correctness is way more prevalent and stifling than left-wing political correctness.

Actually, the Ron Paul campaign is an interesting case study, because Ron Paul also had some pretty racist newsletters in his past. Yet when Ron Paul ran for president, the racist newsletter stories was almost a complete dud. People weren’t offended by Ron Paul’s racist newsletters and demand that he be cancelled because of them; the powers that be got offended and rigged the primaries against Ron Paul because they didn’t think his foreign policy views were patriotic/jingoistic enough. And this was pretty recent—in 2012. So it seems as recently as 2012 people were more likely to face stigma and adverse consequences from deviating from conservative foreign policy views than liberal views on race.

+1

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we wreckon its time for another academic eye test
are you actually conflating " booing" rand paul in a debate and assaulting
people& burning stuff and getting them fired

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Then you should follow organizations like the Foundation for Individual Rights in Education and see how universities--even public universities that are bound by the First Amendment--routinely violate free speech.

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You mean he didn't win. How do you rig a primary against someone? Was he not allowed on the ballot?

Zaua's comment that he made arguments in school that racial differences are based in biology without censure is only believable if he is 45+ years old.

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Don’t doubt what you are saying for a second, but the left wing woke mob OWNS.

Instagram, Twitter, NYT, CNBC,CNN, Washington Post, HBO, Netflix, NPR, LA Times, VOX, Huff Po, Atlantic, New Republic, Daily Beast all doing its bidding at the media level.

All Ivy League Colleges, most small private liberal arts colleges, Univeristy of Michigan, University of Florida, entirety of Cal State system, entirety of CUNY and SUNY all doing its bidding at university level

A few things tanks doing its bidding

All secondary public school systems doing its bidding

You are kidding yourself if you think the right wing mob has anywhere near the levels of juice as the left wing mob.....

I think it is funny you consider the corporate entities among those you list as "left wing". You have no idea what is coming.

you sound pretty sure of yourself
enlighten us
what is your idea of "what is coming"

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+1,

"Well most of the people complaining about so-called PC ... are going off of anecdotal media reports."

Then Zaua starts in on an anecdotal story. That's not a logical stance. Either you discount anecdotal stories or you credit anecdotal stories. To discount the other sided stories but credit your own is just a biased stance.

In any case, there were hundreds of anti-Iraq War protests on American universities.

"Protests took place all across the United States of America with CBS reporting that 150 U.S. cities had protests.[24] According to the World Socialist Web Site, protests took place in 225 different communities.[19]

The largest protests took place in the nation's largest cities including Chicago, Los Angeles, and New York City, but there were also smaller rallies in towns such as Gainesville, Georgia; Macomb, Illinois; and Juneau, Alaska, among scores of others."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/15_February_2003_anti-war_protests#United_States

People forget the right's cancel culture but it was there. Dixie Chicks got blacklisted from radio and harassed for being against the Iraq War.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixie_Chicks_controversy

I don't think anybody has forgotten that, but it's far rarer than what's happening on the Left. You had to pull out an example from 15+ years ago. There are a handful of Leftwing examples within the last 30 days.

That's at least an order of magnitude of difference.

Kaepernick was canceled by the right too. Literally made him lose his job. That recent enough for you?

Kaepernick wasn't cancelled. He quit the 49'rs to become a free agent. And then nobody else hired him because his performance had dropped off even before he started kneeling during the anthem.

"Since the start of the 2015 season, Kaepernick ranks last in the NFL among 35 qualified passers in off-target percentage (22.6). His completion percentage ranks No. 32 at 59.1. He still was one of the NFL's most productive rushing quarterbacks, ranking No. 4 in total yardage over those years, but it didn't mitigate his passing deterioration. ... Kaepernick has been one of the league's least accurate quarterbacks for two years."

https://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/234081/colin-kaepernicks-biggest-problem-performance-not-politics

To be fair, I do think his political position made him less likely to be hired. Though the amount of money he was looking for probably had more to do with it. $20 million per year was above what teams were willing to pay for him.

But in no way was he cancelled.

“Well, I think that’s good. I don’t think people should be staying in locker rooms. But still, I think it’s good. You have to stand proudly for the national anthem, or you shouldn’t be playing, you shouldn’t be there. Maybe you shouldn’t be in the country,” Trump said in a wide-ranging sit-down with “Fox and Friends” that took place Wednesday but wasn't aired until Thursday.

"If a player wants the privilege of making millions of dollars in the NFL,or other leagues, he or she should not be allowed to disrespect our Great American Flag (or Country) and should stand for the National Anthem," Trump wrote over two tweets in late September. "If not, YOU’RE FIRED. Find something else to do!”

I am sure we can all agree that the president is so ineffective and weak that everything he ever says or tweets is completely ignored by people like NFL owners or fans. And that Trump is never an exemplar of cancel culture, since his calls for the fake media to be shut down are well founded.

"I am sure we can all agree that the president is so ineffective and weak that everything he ever says or tweets is completely ignored by people like NFL owners or fans. "

+1, Indeed, the vast majority of Trumps tweets are completely ignored.

Everyone always forgets Kap's jersey sales went to #1 when he kneeled. Like BLM, it's all about marketing and power.

Kap never cared about completing a 5-yard out in the flat.

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"Cancelled" is a weird way to say "Became more prominent as a celebrity than ever"

To be fair "cancelling" really applied best in the cases like Spacey, CK and such, who got both closed out of media generally and removed from their careers or guys like Damore who are flatly removed from careers. "Cancelling" of other figures seems to sometimes lead them to become popular figures among supporters (kapernick on the left wing rabble for ex) so has mixed effects.

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the dixie chicks just dropped the dixie.
next we predict they will drop the "chicks"

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"Well most of the people complaining about so-called PC seem to be a long time removed from academia" Well, no. I am currently working in academia, as a professor and chair of department, and I am complaining about PC, and basically every one I know there, even amongst the most vocal supporters of PC, admit after two glasses of wine in a private conversation how horrified they are by it.

In any case, PC has metastasized, and is now everywhere: in the news media, the TV shows, the political discourses, even my bank statements
are now informing me that my bank cares about diversity and is against racism. So it is normal that people who have no link to academia also cares or complains about PC.

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The guy is an asshole and admits it. It was amusing for him to start with this:

"It was popular a few years ago to write about this experience. We called it ‘quit lit’. Documents in the genre tended to run long...with additional self-indulgent drivel about values and feelings (which were not)."

Then he proceeds to write a lot of self-indulgent drivel.....

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"I would also note here that while being very fucking un-PC I have somehow managed to navigate this allegedly sensitive environment through the simple process of people knowing what I’m about."

Navigate, sure. Get a job that pays for the time you put into it? Not so much.

It's a two tiered system. I'm not sure the point of talking about your success in getting a job on the lower, exploitative tier that everybody is desperate to escape.

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1. This is not a good trend for students. It is extremely easy if you go to a local university in your hometown to just hang out with the same people you knew in high school and never expand your horizons, with the result that you won’t get a full education or network.

That said, I am concerned that universities are potentially going to be a big vector for spreading the coronavirus in the fall, especially because most prestigious universities that attract a nationwide student body are in the Northeast where community spread of the virus has been greatly diminished, so the return to campus would likely mean people flowing from more-infected to less-infected areas and then embedding in the community where they will be in frequent close contact with many other people. I’d like my local universities to continue to welcome and indeed affirmatively recruit students from elsewhere, but also to test them when they arrive on campus and quarantine them for 14 days at the start of the semester unless they test negative.

How are we supposed to indoctrinate them into the woke cabal if they aren't scared in a new place and easily accepting of authority and whatever we tell them?

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Brain drain from rural to urban and from rural sates to urban states is real. It might be bad for the students careers but good for the community if COVID results in more smart people staying local. With telecommuting, their potential career may be less tied to a specific geographic region.

That said, we are nearly 4 months into this and US governments and institutions have still done nothing that would limit the spread of COVID such that this doesn't end with us all getting it. I say lets get it over with as soon as possible.

Universities doing some online classes instead of packed lecture halls or even doing testing like you recommend are kidding themselves if they don't believe the students wont all get it at parties.

I guess they're hiding the secret vaccine at Fort Knox. Seriously, what do you think they should do?

give us the secret Fort Knox vaccine!

seriously though I don't think people realize that literally dozens of vaccines are in testing as well as synthetic antibodies

probably been reading too many FiercePharma PRs but I give the pandemic one to three months before US excess deaths are back to "seasonal flu" levels and economy fully reopened

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What should the fed do? The federal government shouldn't do much.

Perhaps Trump should;ve shut all international flgihts yes, but it looks like the Dems would've done impeachment rd 2 if he did that.

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"I am concerned that universities are potentially going to be a big vector for spreading the coronavirus in the fall"

Well it may not be a problem at all. The US may have acquired enough immunity by that point as to render the point moot. Apparently, there are a lot more cases than we've confirmed. It's pretty much the tip of the iceberg.

"Nearly 25 million Americans may have contracted the coronavirus, a figure 10 times higher than the number of confirmed cases, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said Thursday.
...
For every one confirmed case, Redfield said, the CDC estimates that 10 more people have been infected."

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/504552-cdc-coronavirus-may-have-infected-10-times-more-americans-than-known

So, it turns out that coronavirus was far more prevalent than we realized and far less lethal.

If the 25 million number is accurate, then the IFR is well under 1%(roughly 0.5%).

That's possibly true but does not imply there is no problem. Those 25 million people are concentrated in just a few parts of the country and that still means we are well below the point where we could return to normal and expect to be at herd immunity. Houston's medical community is already warning that unless trends reverse, their hospitals will become overwhelmed.

"That's possibly true but does not imply there is no problem."

True, but it does mean that hospitalizations and serious side effects are 10x less common than we thought.

Presumably if we are at 25 million, we'd be at a minimum of 50 million by Fall and more likely we'd be closer to 75 million.

75 million is roughly 25% of the population . With 25% out right immune and the young college age not likely to be significantly harmed by Covid19, I don't see why we couldn't open schools up.

It would seem far more harmful to delay schooling for 10's of millions of students, permanently damaging their human capital and future work careers over a real, but manageable risk.

worry there is too much "funky bloodwork" even in the mild cases, real risks of stroke, etc

otoh wait a month and see how things look then... a lot going on in trials... things change fast, remember that imminent ventilator shortage? a lot were rushed into production at great expense and will come off production lines this fall destined for giant warehouses and Top Men

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You do the math about reaching the chimera of enough immunity (thankfully avoiding the idiotic term herd immunity) in about 10 weeks.

Or imagine what happened in NYC happening nationwide - simultaneously. A nightmare scenario that (one most fervently hopes) will not come to pass nationwide, even if places like Houston are well on their way to reaching.

Watch Arizona or California (in the sort of moronic bipartisan spirit that several commenters here consider so important) to see how quickly they reach an 85% uninfected rate. Hopefully not before the start of the fall semester (and in one sense, hopefully never with a vaccine), but even then 15% infected is not a realistic number for sufficient immunity.

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#1. The predictions of large enrollment drops typically imagine that there's something else for students to be doing, but aren't very clear on what that would be. It's a terrible time to look for jobs, or travel, and few people are excited about a year spent in quiet meditation. Also, we still have the unfortunate mindset that college is necessary for nearly everyone. That said, as a professor at a large state school, lots of clouds are on the horizon: students desperately want there to be in-person classes; faculty (especially older ones) do not; students are (justifiably) very upset about paying full, exorbitant tuition + housing costs for a lower-quality experience; the administration pretends this anger doesn't exist.

A question I've wondered: what if students organized themselves, and refused to pay tuition?

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2. sociologists say "mostly peaceful protesting" unironically
and other silly shit
3. pray tell what state grows mostly "corn and racism"
4. silly sociologists assert there is no cognitive benefit to children reading

someone should inform comrade houseplant biden

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#6. I only listened to 20 mins. Will listen to the rest later.
My shorter version : The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, genetics matter, people practice assortative mating; Cinderella is indeed a fairy tale.

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#3: Pairing an ego that big with that little self-realization and that much contempt for everyone who sees things even a little bit differently, he's the perfect academic. The presumptive ad hominem attacks make him especially fit for tenured academia.

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#5: Mozart's 40th symphony also sounds good when played by an ensemble of kotos (sort of a Japanese zither or harp). I don't see an online audio or video clip however.
https://www.amazon.com/Ensemble-Tokyo-Conducted-Yoshikazu-Fukumura/dp/B004X8AW30

Sometimes the koto sounds like a toy piano but sometimes the transcribed music sounds good e.g. "Fall" from Vivaldi's _The Four Seasons_:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFOYkRY720M

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#3 I stopped reading at the "corn and racism" quip. I wish this had been included earlier in the piece so that I would have wasted less time, but nonetheless I appreciate the honest signal by the author.

Yup! It’s just a different form of racism when someone says something like that.

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I kept reading, but it was clear that the author's comment:

"I would also note here that while being very fucking un-PC I have somehow managed to navigate this allegedly sensitive environment through the simple process of people knowing what I’m about."

Probably implies that he's a bigoted Leftwinger who trashes the Right at ever opportunity. And that translates to un-PC in his mind and since it hasn't caused a problem for him, obviously all these people complaining about it are just dumb and should just be ignored.

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#4 -- "Controlling for differences in piano-playing ability, we find that piano lessons confer no skills..."

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There are few enough good comments on this page that I wonder if those of you who are should just leave.

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5. Link with credit to the Singer

https://www.facebook.com/samadipta.mukherjee/videos/263584774976597/

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3. tl/dr

he’s an antisocial bro who got passed over and can’t figure out why people don’t like him even though he pretends to not care?

sidebar: triple money in the private sector? there goes another right wing trope

+1, yes that sounds like a reasonable take.

"sidebar: triple money in the private sector? there goes another right wing trope"

That's not a right wing trope. A majority of teachers and university faculty don't think they are paid nearly enough for what they do. They all complain that they could make much more money working in the private sector.

It's the right wing that points out when you correct for actual hours worked, medical benefits, retirement benefits, that they are paid about the same.

Well, some members of the right might frame it that way. It's kind of nuanced for a comment section tho.

The ones I encounter usually cherish a mental image of academics getting wildly rich, and they hold this image so deeply that they often seem a little envious.

"Well, some members of the right might frame it that way. "

Yes, which means its not a right wing trope. You are stereotyping the comments of a few people to classify a much broader class of people.

au contraire

I am describing the norm, you are describing the outliers

Then you shouldn't have any problem providing a citation supporting your statement.

Here's a citation supporting my statement that a majority of teachers think they are underpaid.

"The poll documents a deep discontent among America’s teachers, 60% of whom say they’re unfairly paid and 55% of whom say they’d vote to go on strike for higher pay."

https://www.ajc.com/news/local-education/most-teachers-feel-underpaid-would-strike-for-raise-poll-finds/MD75p2QLGAZKiJ8RhWw46I/

Has everyone lost their mind today? You have managed to end up arguing in the opposite direction of where you started.

The only questionable thing from JWatts at all in this thread is engaging in good faith with someone who’s here to flame culture war bullshit. But he’s a patient dude

All I see is a childish and idiotic “everyone in my political outgroup believes Strawman X”

As always the assertion is made without any evidence at all

aw good
i was worried i wouldn't get yipped at today

jwatts may be above that, if you say so, but you sure ain’t

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>It's the right wing that points out when you correct for actual hours worked, medical benefits, retirement benefits, that they are paid about the same.

Not to mention job security. 50 yro's suddenly getting laid off is so common in the private sector, it's become trope too.

Funny you'd mention that.

I give that former academic ten months.

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+1. That left-wing trope about making much more in the private sector is also one way that they rationalize the dearth of conservatives in academia, who are presumed to be greedy Scrooges unwilling to take a vow of 'poverty'.

It's not a trope when it's a fact.

Better pay in the private sector is a fact. 3x in fact; according to the wanna-be Elon Musk of applied something something science.

Depends on what you count as pay. Benefits--including job security--are often better in academia. I work for a Fortune 200 company as a scientist, and am on my wife's health insurance because ours is absolute garbage. And job security is essentially non-existent.

There's also the difference between what you charge and what you get paid. Any consultant charges 3x their pay rate (approximately) to cover overhead and the like. If this academic confused these two numbers, he's going to get a rude awakening.

Hours and workload are also an issue. The line from Ghostbusters is accurate: the private sector demands results. Your workload is going to reflect that. There's a blog "Decoding Patterns of Success" were a professor tries to give advice on time management. It's always amusing the way he recommends scheduling your days--he's used to having a very high degree of control over his time. You don't get that in the private sector, at least not until you're pretty high up the food chain.

I will say that the private sector is a lot more fun. I've got more publications to my name than most professors I know, and I've worked on a far wider range of projects than they have. I never fully know what tomorrow is going to bring. For me, that's a good thing--I thrive in chaos. Whether he'll do well or not is an open question.

i certainly agree the guy is a d-bag. if he is going to switch to 1099 and doesn't even know about schedule SE, that would be a lovely cosmic joke.

i don’t know about corporate science, but i don't agree about high standards as the default corporate expectation. Dilbert isn't about academia after all

I don't think I said anything about high standards. I said results. The two are very different. The data sets I work would would make an academic cry--there are data gaps, confounding factors everywhere, data of varying quality and even matrix....At one time I had to use sample results that were from a tree core put into a plastic bag, put in a hotel microwave for 30 minutes, then a PID stuck into the bag to read VOC levels (I didn't take that sample, I just had to use the data). Not exactly high-quality stuff. But it's good enough to get the job done. Except for the tree data, that was just....I still can't figure that one out.

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You have to take lifecycle into account. I am most familiar with economics and, there, people work very hard to even get a Ph.D. with a good dissertation in the first place. Then, if you are good enough to get hired into a tenure track position (at around age 30), it is another 5-7 of hard work to get tenure. The average salary for an assistant professor in economics used to be about $80,000 per year and it seems as if it has stayed at that level. That is not a low salary in big picture terms but the point is that the sorts of people with the intellect and work ethic to complete a Ph.D. at a top program are equally capable of going the MBA or law school route and earning over $100,000 by the time they turn 30. It is not a profession for people who either want to chase money or want to be a bit lazy in their late 20s or early 30s.

Moreover, there is no job security for tenure track faculty and they get cut all the time for failure to produce enough publications. My experience in talking to people who have gone through this process is that it involves a lot of hard work with no guarantee of a long-term payoff. Once you get tenure in your mid to late 30s, it is a different story and you can afford to relax a bit.

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Large state schools are fine. Smaller colleges are not.

And a lot of colleges are offering online semesters next semester. If that's counted in "enrollment" yeah, they are meeting enrollment. But it's not the same thing.

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#2...I enjoyed this post and essentially agree with it. Of course, riots are a different matter.

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#4: Define "enrichment".

When my sister and I were young she wanted to play with Barbies. I wanted to play with Legos. We had each other on rainy afternoons--there were no other playmates, and we were stuck in one room, so not playing together wasn't an option. Our solution involved discussions of race relations that shape our views to this day.

We also watched Darkwing Duck on TV when we were permitted to do so. Mindless entertainment; there was no attempt to educate in that cartoon. Yet our quest to discover if Darkwing was actually heroic led us to to such authors as Aristotle and Plato, and such works as The Illiad and Beowulf. Again, the impacts of those discussions shaped who we are today.

Dad reading poetry to us on stormy nights to get us over our fear of lightning lead us to literature. (Before you say "That's enrichment!" I contend that anything that gets you in trouble with your mother, two grandparents, four priests, and a bishop can't be included under that heading.) Mom singing as she worked lead us to love music (even if I sing like a badly-tuned excavator, I can enjoy listening to it). Hitting each other with sticks lead me to Medieval Re-enactment, a major part of my life.

In contrast, the "enrichment activities" we were obliged to engage in at school and elsewhere had little impact on us. I can't even remember an "enrichment activity", let alone anything that made an impact on me.

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#3 - That poor man and his elderly, infirm and not-cheap cat, the vomit in his mouth from being Anglo, his wife's job. My God, the struggle is real.

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#3..Significantly less moving than Hermey leaving the elves.

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#3, all true when I threw in the towel on my PhD 25 yrs ago. New ppl always think it's new, something that's just starting. The prob is that there are so many Academic flies willing to work for shit. Dear aspiring flies: quit your PhDs now. Boycott the shit pile.

What if all that RA/TA money that's going to overeducate un-needed PhDs was instead spent for undergrad research assistants as a form of career training and financial aid?

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#2: needs to provide a summary of their argument at the start, paragraph length, then leap into their lengthy quotations with obscure meaning, interpretable perhaps (but only perhaps), by a scholar of Smith's mileau and political philosophy.

In general to me it seems an endorsement of the protest as not irrational, that attempts to smuggle in this endorsement through claims to be "merely applying a model" and laundering irrational moral sentiments as rational. No good at all....

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#2. I thought this was pretty good. Presumably, Smith wasn't writing with a particular racial controversy in mind, his aim was universal. He made a close and fruitful study of human mental processes.

In this case, we have two plausible stories around which to direct these human energies: (a) unfair treatment of black Americans, and (b) police brutality. The intersection of the two issues in the persons of George Floyd and Derek Chauvin, applied to a country exhausted by three years of "Trump and The Resistance" and at its wits end after more than two months of pandemic lockdown, all while trying to come to grips with what exactly social media is doing to us, has exploded into our current madness.

What I don't like about it is the preponderance of white people using this as a vehicle for expiating their own "guilt" (John McWhorter is very good on this.) Black people aren't interested in the new dopey white religion, except to the extent they can put it in their own service and why not.

Like clockwork, the older dopey mostly white religion of revolutionary socialism, forever poised to exploit the most recent "crisis of late capitalism" but today made up almost exclusively of LMC to UMC LARPers, has leapt into the fray, pretty much a 100% detrimental feature of recent events.

Anyway, if the point is about improving black lives, I don't think the protests and riots have moved the ball forward at all. How many black Americans are more upset about not being able to go to church than interested in joining these protests? I honestly don't know, but I bet it's a lot.

We can separate out the two plausible issues and talk about them, and even talk about how the intersection here works, and what we can do about, but we're not doing any of that.

+1 That was pretty good summation of recent events.

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