From the NYTimes
The lead plaintiff is Binyam Mohamed, an Ethiopian citizen and legal resident of Britain who was arrested in Pakistan in 2002. He claimed he was turned over to the C.I.A., which flew him to Morocco and handed him off to its security service.
Moroccan interrogators, he said, held him for 18 months and subjected him to an array of tortures, including cutting his penis with a scalpel and then pouring a hot, stinging liquid on the open wounds.
Mr. Mohamed was later transferred back to the C.I.A., which he said flew him to its secret prison in Afghanistan. There, he said, he was held in continuous darkness, fed sparsely and subjected to loud noise – like the recorded screams of women and children – 24 hours a day.
He was later transferred again to the military prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, where he was held for an additional five years. He was released and returned to Britain in early 2009 and is now free.
and from the court's response:
First, that the judicial branch may have deferred to the
executive branch’s claim of privilege in the interest of
national security does not preclude the government from honoring
the fundamental principles of justice.
Oh that's nice the U.S. government is not precluded from honoring the fundamental principles of justice. Tell me, what government ever was?
This is what comes from following the principles of the “Rule of Law” rather than that of equity to it’s logical conclusion (well, when on rejects an underlying natural law which positive law must conform to if the positive law is to be legitimate).
Tylor once wondered why anyone would be a diplomat:
My question is, why would anyone decide he wanted to slice people’s penises for a living?
The government can’t be precluded from anything, it seems. It is just harder to preclude it from it’s accretion of power than to preclude it from exercising that power. Not much news there.
I just think it is humorous that people are so irrationally afraid of “the big evil corporations” or whatnot, that they are willing to put total control over health care, education, etc., in the hands of people who regularly cut off the penises of innocent people.
No matter how evil you believe the “Big Insurance Companies” are (for example), I am fairly certain that they never engage in deliberate genital mutilation, mass bombings of civilians, widespread domestic spying, etc.
What I find astounding is that, given the undeniable evidence of the most extreme violations of human rights, even by first-world liberal democracies, that leftists can’t comprehend how libertarians are a bit skeptical of socialism. I am not asking the socialists to convert to my belief system, but you should be able to understand and respect the fact that sensible people might not be in a huge hurry to give the people responsible for overseeing the CIA’s respect for human right, the responsibility to manage our health care.
He is a witch! His statements prove it! Only a witch would lie like that! No, not witch, I mean terrorist!
Makes me want to grab some anti-abortion terrorists (where ‘terrorist’ is applied with the same rigor and care that the Bush II reign did) and torture the living f*ck out of them.
Watch the right squeal when they figure that *they* will be subject to this, not just brown people.
However, I imagine the CIA will claim that he was either imprisoned and not tortured, or fighting as a guerrilla fighter away from civilization.
Uh, no, they won’t claim anything. Because they don’t have to. Because the suit has been dismissed without anyone’s having to provide a defense, on the grounds that details of our interrogation program — details which are, in fact, matters of public knowledge — are “state secrets.”
We know of other instances where people were in U.S. custody, turned over to other regimes for torture, and eventually released. Maher Arar, for instance.
Glad to see Alex is capable of getting pissed off about this. Few people are.
Here’s a better one: http://thisishistorictimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/editorial_20090212.jpg
Dave, why not ponder the evidence? Surely that’s a little more important than credibil-
Oh. Wait.
We won’t see any evidence at all, because the case won’t go to trial.
Alex, whats with the passive aggressiveness?
I like the double-speak implied by questioning the version of events given by all the plaintiffs in this case (there are many, Mohamed is only one).
The same people who dismiss people like Mohamed and Arar won’t hesitate in any other context to denounce Muslim-run governments as oppressive and barbaric regimes. But apparently, these same people think that the jailers and police and security officials of these countries would never, ever commit torture. Who knew Morocco had such a pristine human rights record?
Has he shown you his penis? Why are you so quick to accept at face value the word of terrorists vs. those who defend us from them. What exactly do you expect them to say, that they were treated humanely, were well fed, received medical care, and allowed to pray?
Terrorists in our prisons get better treatment than reality show contestants.
Ken, your analogy is ridiculous. No one has or can produce an “alibi” for not having done something.
Terrorist manuals specifically instructed them:
1. The US will not torture them
2. They will lie and say they have been tortured.
I don’t condone torture. I think it’s abominable except for the rarest circumstances – the ticking time bomb scenario. I think waterboarding steps over the line to unlawful treatment, but otherwise making them uncomfortable during questioning is not torture.
The lack of checks and balances is a residual of Laws of War which have not been properly designed for this type of situation. It is unlikely we’ll ever get an update because Russia and China will impede any progress on the issue. They know they are unhindered by any rules but here we have Americans (like good Alex) who question us.
Under the Law of War, unlawful combatants should be tried by military tribunals. They have rights under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Torture is expressly prohibited.
If we transfer prisoners to countries where we know they will be tortured, it’s a profound moral and ethical lapse, but it’s probably not illegal.
Those who would govern but claim they can not unless they are above the law are not fit to serve.
The claim that they can’t enforce the law unless they break what laws they need to just demonstrates their lack of qualifications to do the job they are charged with…Public safety and public order.
Too many U.S. Police officers serve departments that protect the social and political order; even the economic order takes precedence over Law and Order…The public’s belief in the Rule of Law is degrading…rgj
When someone moves heaven and earth in every possible place to avoid having the facts of what they’ve done come to light, that strongly suggests those facts won’t look good for them. The history of the US government under Bush and Obama here is precisely doing everything available to avoid having the truth about our actions come out.
Now, this particular guy may or may not be telling the truth. Ensuring he never gets a trial is one way to make it hard for us to find out. But there is a pile of evidence[1] in terms of leaked and FOIAed and declassified documents, well-sourced news reports, and statements from current and former government officials that makes it clear we were doing stuff like what this guy is claiming. And that makes our continuing efforts to avoid having the truth in these cases come out look really bad.
[1] The ACLU has a bunch of declassified FOIAed US government documents up on its website, which is not a bad place to start, assuming you want to see the evidence of what’s happened. Former overnment officials have admitted (and bragged about) using “harsh interrogation techniques” on suspected terrorists. The CIA admits destroying videotape evidence of interrogations (if you or I did that, we’d be sitting in prison right now). The president and congress worked together to ensure that further torture photos would not be published despite legitimate FOIA requests. The president and administration have ensured that nobody important will ever face legal consequences for torturing prisoners. (Of course, various low-ranking military people have gone to prison for this stuff. But you know, nobody who matters will go to prison.) All this is in the open, available to anyone who wants to know and has a web browser, along with horrifying piles of additional evidence. Continued ignorance in this environment is voluntary. It feels rotten to see your own country doing such awful things for such paltry reasons.
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