Markets in everything?

by on August 18, 2017 at 7:10 am in Economics, Law, Religion | Permalink

I cannot tell whether this tale should count as confirmed:

As awful as that may sound, a number of religious scholars are offering themselves up for one-night stands with divorced Muslim women trying to save their marriages under a disputable Islamic law, an India Today investigation has found.

They charge anywhere between Rs 20,000 and Rs 1.5 lakh to participate in nikah halala, a controversial practice that requires a woman to marry someone else, sleep with him and get a divorce again in order to be able to remarry her first husband under personal laws, the probe discovered.

India Today’s investigative team has blown the lid off the taboo tradition that has remained largely unnoticed amid intense debates over triple talaq on the media and in the country’s top court.

The probe found many Islamic scholars putting themselves up on sale for women desperate to restore their broken marriages.

Here is the full article, via Raj.  I am surprised that the equilibrium price is that high.

1 Steve Sailer August 18, 2017 at 7:27 am

It’s a tough job, but somebody’s got to do it.

2 Brad_Sk August 18, 2017 at 1:07 pm

LOL…Yep.

What a “smart” religious leader (s) who have made such rules!

3 Butler T. Reynolds August 18, 2017 at 7:30 am

Maybe the post-modernists are right. Everything is a social construct.

4 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 7:53 am

But the Indians, as we all are told, are much superior to Brazilians.

5 freethinker August 18, 2017 at 10:23 am

“Indians?” That is too broad a term for Indians of a particular faith who have the practice mentioned sanctioned by their civil law

6 JWatts August 18, 2017 at 10:29 am

He’s a racist who is prejudiced against Indians and Japanese. (And probably many others).

7 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 11:15 am

No, I am not, but I am not a politically corret fool. I judge people for their deeds. The Japanese muredered, tortured or raped countless Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Americans in their mad attempt to conquer the world. They rebelled against Brazil, tried to overthrow our government and they keep criticizing Brazilian.
The Indian regime is savage. As Brazilian ambassador pointed out at the time, they were not ready for self-rule. They still are nlt, it is their fault, not mine.

8 JWatts August 18, 2017 at 11:28 am

“The Japanese muredered, tortured or raped countless Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese, Americans in their mad attempt to conquer the world. ”

That happened in the 1940’s. How is that different that the Germans?

9 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 12:01 pm

It is completely different. The Germans have apologized, it is a new country now. Even now, the Japanese refuse to ackowledge the full extent of their moral responsability, they still think it is a grosss injustice they coulspd not conquer the world and enslave mankind.

And the Germans were compelled by the Nazis (suffice to say, the Holocaust was not a publically discussed matter), the Japanese militarist regime was the logical conclusion of the Japanese system. Also the Germans are not threatening to retake Kaliningrad. Also the Germans did not rebelled against Brazil (even after Brazil captured German troops in Italy) and did no try to conquer Brazil, quite the opposite: they behave in a honiravle, loyal way. Before the war, Germany was Brazil’s most important ally.

10 JWatts August 18, 2017 at 12:13 pm

“{Germans} …quite the opposite: they behave in a honiravle, loyal way. ”

The Germans behaved in an honorable, loyal way during WW2? Well that’s certainly a novel perspective. You are a very special person Thiago Ribeiro.

11 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 12:28 pm

I was talking about the Germans in Brazil, they did not to rebel even during the wors of thw war. The Japnese, who had been well-treated, rebelled against Brazil and trieto take over our country. They are disloyal racists.

12 msgkings August 18, 2017 at 11:02 am

Well yeah, everyone is superior to Brazilians, including you Thomas!

13 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 11:16 am

No, it is not. Brazilians have many contributions to mankind.

14 msgkings August 18, 2017 at 12:13 pm

Only Giselle really.

15 Thor August 18, 2017 at 12:25 pm

Yes, but what a contribution!

16 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 12:35 pm

Brazil invented the airplane, the walkman, helped the telephone to take over, invented the typewriter, the radiotransmission, a novel kind of payphone, a superior kind of X-ray machine (abreugrafia) and discovered the pion. Brazil’s flag is widely considered the most beautiful and famous French writer Victor Hugo considered Brazil’s last Emperor as the best king there was. Brazil never fought a war of aggression and famous American statesman Dean Acheson, when Soviet communist leader Molotov criticized Brazil, praised our country for its gallant behavior during WW II. According to American military, Brazil’s colaboration was decisive for the Allies’ victory.

17 msgkings August 18, 2017 at 1:16 pm

Nah. Just Giselle.

18 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 1:55 pm

And much, much, much more.

19 msgkings August 18, 2017 at 2:06 pm

Nah. Just her.

20 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 3:52 pm

And more.

21 msgkings August 19, 2017 at 5:47 pm

Nope. Only that very beautiful lady.

22 rec1man August 18, 2017 at 2:34 pm

They are muslims and this practise Halala is prescribed in the Koran

23 Thiago Ribeiro August 18, 2017 at 3:31 pm

I can assure you such things would never be tolerated in Brazil,

24 Axa August 18, 2017 at 8:13 am

Journalist should interview to the women family. I’d like to watch that show where the father and mother (brothers?) explain how this is a good idea.

25 Art Deco August 18, 2017 at 8:13 am

Religious sanctioned cuckoldry?! Count me in!

26 dearieme August 18, 2017 at 8:42 am

“in order to be able to remarry her first husband under personal laws”: what does it mean by “personal laws”?

27 dearieme August 18, 2017 at 8:54 am

Although to be clear, I’m all in for this kind of cuckoldry.

28 freethinker August 18, 2017 at 10:21 am

what does it mean by “personal laws”?

perhaps Tyler ought to have mentioned that in India while criminal law is uniform for all religious groups, civil law, for example the law regarding marriage and divorce, differs between Muslims, Hindus and Christians. After attaining independence the first leaders of India felt permitting minorities to have civil law based on religious traditions would make them feel secure in a Hindu majority nation. The liberals among them complain the clerics , all male, interpret these traditions in a manner which is socially regressive.

29 dearieme August 18, 2017 at 3:29 pm

Thanks, freethinker.

I hope you recognise that the ‘cuckoldry’ comment is not by me. It’s odd that someone who wishes to claim to be me can’t write even a short sentence that has the appearance of being in British English. Perhaps he’s just dim.

30 Bill August 18, 2017 at 8:51 am

Who cares.

And, given some of the anti-muslim rhetoric in India, probably false.

But, what is true is that

White men slept with their slaves,

Including teenagers,

And so did

Strom Thurmond, although his was not a slave.

31 Thomas August 18, 2017 at 10:14 am

In certain African and Arab countries, brown and black men are still sleeping with their slaves. Not that the left cares about rape when it isn’t a convenient political cudgel for the racism in your hearts.

32 Bill August 18, 2017 at 12:20 pm

So, you speak from experience?

33 Bill August 18, 2017 at 12:20 pm

So, you speak from experience?

34 Thomas August 18, 2017 at 3:02 pm

Unlike you and your party, I oppose all forms racial, gender, sexual, sexual orientation, and religious discrimination by our government. Unlike you, I oppose rape even when the alleged rapist isn’t a caricature of a Ivy league frat boy.

35 Bill August 19, 2017 at 10:04 am

Did you feel good when you proclaimed your identity, and how did this advance the discussion. Did it feel good to claim, without knowing me, what party I belong too. You must have very sensitive political feelers that you can make decisions like this through the internet. Or, maybe it’s your belief system, which you proclaim specifically, that gives you these powers.

36 CorvusB August 18, 2017 at 8:52 am

Religious law meets economic (and social) reality. There are related and similar practices in the Middle East. Want some nooky? Get married for a night or a week. Some of the Middle Eastern countries already prohibit this practice for non-Muslim males – and if I recall, recently at least one was looking at making the practice illegal for non-Muslim males. Of course, there are also methods to quickly become Muslim.
I also recall reading of instances where the woman or women were underage, and neither divorcees nor widows. At least, not the first time.

37 EverExtruder August 18, 2017 at 9:02 am

Islam is really fucking weird. It appears ultra conservative to most but people forget that a lot of the day-to-day religious instruction of how to live one’s life is derived by individual sheikh’s or Imam’s interpretations of the Koran and also hereditarily passed on from generation to generation. This results in a wide pantheon of very very strange judgments on a wide range of subjects. Orthodox Judaism is somewhat similar in this regard.

Tribal superstitions passing themselves off as religious instruction.

38 EverExtruder August 18, 2017 at 9:13 am

Don’t get me wrong though I, like others here, am a big supporter of a cuckold way of life promoted here.

39 The real EverExtruder August 18, 2017 at 9:58 am

Wow you are an epic troll. Don’t you have statues that need smashing?

40 EverExtruder August 18, 2017 at 10:06 am

I once got cucked by a statue of Robert E. Lee. Proudest day of my life!

41 Art Deco August 18, 2017 at 10:35 am

I was once cucked by a statue of Jeff Davis – that’s far more humiliating so I win the cuck game. Again!

42 Brian Donohue August 18, 2017 at 10:02 am

As any dark triad playah can tell you, this is tight “religious scholar” game.

43 John Mansfield August 18, 2017 at 10:06 am

Probably the women are paying for a few things. They are buying self-respect with the sense that they are engaging a clinical expert for a routine procedure and not involving themselves in something sordid with the sort of man who would say, “Hey, I’ll do it for free.” Also, they are paying for the expectation of an immediate trouble-free divorce.

44 Thor August 18, 2017 at 10:18 am

One definition of “political Islam” is, “improving everything including economics by the application of more faith (devotion, belief).”

Many of us in the West are dismayed by this solution and would prefer to see more secularity applied instead. Even “more state” might be preferable to “more church (mosque).”

This kind of mealy mouthed, technical solution (Milan halala) to a social problem is just going to result in more calls for moral purity (political Islam) in the laity.

45 Thor August 18, 2017 at 10:19 am

Stupid spell correct. Nikah halala.

46 JWatts August 18, 2017 at 10:26 am

“As awful as that may sound,…”

No one is harmed here. It’s ridiculous to judge another culture standards by your own, if the issue isn’t resulting in any harm.

47 JWatts August 18, 2017 at 10:35 am

We must stand up for cuckoldry as the only true way to be!

48 TheRealJWatts August 18, 2017 at 10:52 am

Hey, I’m tolerant of your fetishes. I’m not judgmental.

49 Thor August 18, 2017 at 12:28 pm

And if you don’t like those fetishes, I’ve got some others.

50 RPLong August 18, 2017 at 10:54 am

“No one is harmed here.”

Is that how you read the situation? I read the situation as being that women are coerced into sleeping with their Imams in order to gain a religious sanction on restoring their marriage. I view this as being even more heinous than Catholic “indulgences” from an eon ago.

51 JWatts August 18, 2017 at 11:36 am

“I read the situation as being that women are coerced into sleeping with their Imams in order to gain a religious sanction on restoring their marriage. ”

I don’t see any mention in the article that the women are coerced by it, at least not to any significant degree. It’s a voluntary quid pro quo. It involves sex for money, which invokes a lot of religious taboos (but not obviously Islamic ones.), but that’s not coercion.

52 RPLong August 18, 2017 at 5:45 pm

So sex with the boss is non-coercive, too, in your opinion?

53 Christian Hansen August 18, 2017 at 11:59 am

No one is haramed here. Amirite?

54 Thor August 18, 2017 at 12:27 pm

Lol

55 Meh August 19, 2017 at 6:00 am

Nice

56 Ahmed August 19, 2017 at 12:46 am

Speaking as a Muslim, I believe that this is so the man does not divorce and re-marry his wife in a frivolous manner, i.e., it reduces the chance of a divorce.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikah_Halala

Below is the reference in the Qur’an with various translations:

http://islamawakened.com/quran/2/230/

57 Ahmed August 19, 2017 at 12:55 am

Further to my comment, I’m not sure whether a quick marriage and divorce counts in order to meet the conditions. Perhaps the second marriage has to actually be a valid longer-term marriage.

Scholars would know better as they study these things including many traditions and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad. So while we can all read the words, the intention is harder to divine.

Religion can be hard.

58 Felix M August 20, 2017 at 4:35 am

So why would Muslim women pay for the marital services of imams, rather than use ordinary guys who would do it for free?

Reminds me of when I paid a lawyer to finalize a document that any literate person could have prepared. It’s just that hiring a pro is an insurance to avoid/ minimize legal disputes in the future.

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