Interviewing Yiyang Zhuge (Zhong Shu)

Many people are writing to me, upset that I am interviewing Ziyang Zhuge, a well-known Chinese internet intellectual, who recently was accused of plagiarism.  I am keen to proceed with the interview, and am happy to explain why.  A few points:

1. The relevant facts here still are being disputed, and furthermore it all happened in Chinese.  If I cannot personally adjudicate the matter, I remain inclined to proceed.  I am also well aware that standards in China, including for plagiarism, are very different than in the United States.  If someone tells me “A person in China did [fill in the blank]” my initial reaction is still “Are they interesting to talk to?”

2. I have had on numerous CEOs and business leaders.  Your opinions of each will vary, but surely some of them are guilty of something.  I do not regret any of them as guests, except insofar as they were boring.  You also can debate whether a former CIA head, in this case John Brennan, ever did anything wrong.  He was fascinating.

3. I once had on Sam Bankman-Fried, now a convicted felon.  It was an excellent episode, and I will point out my lines of questioning were more perspicacious than many people since have realized.

4. I once had on a convicted murderer, Shaka Senghor.  It was an excellent episode, and if I recall only a single person wrote me to complain.  I would gladly have more criminals on, and they do not all have to be repentant in the manner that Shaka is.  Would not a pickpocket guest be intriguing?  For Althusser however it is too late.

5. Without knowing the full story, I suspect the case of Yiyang Zhuge (neither a felon nor a murderer) is most analogous to having on the CEO of DeepSeek, Liang Wenfang.  At this point it is pretty well known that DeepSeek (and other Chinese AI models) distilled a lot from Anthropic’s Claude.  That is a violation of terms of service, and in economic terms it is an event and a depredation of pretty serious magnitude.  I still would be delighted to have Liang Wenfang on the show, and I would do so without obsessing over the issue of distillation.  How about it Liang Wenfang?

Xi Jinping is welcome too.  Chairman Mao, is pork belly with red sauce over- or underrated?  The world awaits your response.