Keynes vs. Hayek, round II

by on April 28, 2011 at 6:53 am in Economics, Education, Film | Permalink

From Russ Roberts, the new and spectacular video is here.  Arnold Kling comments and I agree.

Gabriel E April 28, 2011 at 7:21 am

This actually a pretty catchy tune!

ck April 28, 2011 at 11:52 am

Drop what you’re doing and get to an audiologist immediately.

Indy April 28, 2011 at 7:32 am

I’m amazed at the quality of this. They must have gone to great expense, and yet it was free. I derived a great deal of utility from something with a price of zero. I want Cowen in round 3 with Infovores and TGS, and both Keynes and Hayek regarding each other with looks of mutual confusion.

Andrew' April 28, 2011 at 10:14 am

“They must have gone to great expense, and yet it was free”

Apparently they utilized idle resources.

Anne April 28, 2011 at 7:58 am

AWESOME! Perfect for classrooms, too. Now I won’t have to show Commanding Heights!

liberalarts April 28, 2011 at 8:23 am

Fun to watch, but as a pedagogy tool, one would have to be careful to point out that this is pretty tilted towards the Austrian view.

Wimivo April 28, 2011 at 8:44 am

False Equivalence, round II

multipledrafts April 28, 2011 at 9:50 am

Too slanted against Keynes.

Here’s what Keynes should have said:

Liquidity preference determines money demand,
this simple fact you simply don’t understand.
Anxious investors hold an idle cash balance;
without loanable funds entrepreneurs can’t exercise their talents.

Investment is spending, don’t try to pretend,
that you support production while its partying I defend,
What’s truly irresponsible is letting jobless workers rot.
Expectations were shattered, real resources were not.

Alex Tabarrok April 28, 2011 at 10:40 am

Bravo. Very well done.

Anne April 28, 2011 at 11:02 am

Agreed. This really is quite good.

Andrew April 28, 2011 at 12:10 pm

This is most awesome.

uglyrhymes April 28, 2011 at 12:10 pm

I admitted the importance of liquity preference.
Changes in money demand can distort the prices of reference.
To ease this double burden on the system of prices
in the first best world the Fed MV stabilizes.

If this i admit you also must admit
that government spending is a wasteful way to quit
the liquidity trap of unitilized resources
this secondary recession which the economy curses.

Don’t limit your focus to the output gap,
without a good allocation all production is crap.
Consumer preferences expressed in prices are the key
to produce real wealth, not just spending, in our economy.

A problem of knowledge prevents government
from satisfying consumers preferences with our taxmoney spent.
Also, have you considered the political incentives?
Spending in recessions is easy, whats difficult is taxing.

Special interests groups will make powerful demands
politicians who want reelection, ignore them they can’t.
Power for discretion will be utterly abused
interventions will leave the economy confused.

If the market can fail, then politics can fail.
In a prosperous society our common preferences must prevail.
How to limit the harmful discretion of politics
is a open research question for economics.

The feds mixed record shows there may be gains in reform,
economics the quest for a better monetary constitution can inform.
A supply of private money is what i proposed,
an idea to which economists are still widely opposed.

Lets search together for a better constitution
that allows the price system to function
while protecting the consumers from expropriation
through political money manipulation.

Mattheus von Guttenberg April 28, 2011 at 12:29 pm

That’s what Keynes should have said. It wouldn’t make it true, though…

MC in Alaska April 28, 2011 at 2:29 pm

Kudos. You should help with round 3.

Greg Ransom April 28, 2011 at 9:29 pm

This is a mugs game.

The Hayek stuff is just as over simplified.

One difference — Hayek at a more detailed level has substantive take-downs of Keynes and the Keynesian. The contrary is not the case.

curious April 28, 2011 at 11:39 pm

multipledrafts and uglyrhymes is much better. As you delve deeper into their respective theories the difference may not be as conflicting as the video makes out. i bet they could reach consensus with the knowledge learned to-date in an academic or less-political environment.

Cahal April 29, 2011 at 2:06 am
matt d April 28, 2011 at 9:52 am

Maybe if it was Kanye vs. Hayek, Hayek would have a chance.

ck April 28, 2011 at 11:53 am

Wait, what?

AlanW April 28, 2011 at 1:35 pm

Why does the video imply that Keynes gets an undeserved victory because everyone likes to party? There’s no new stimulus bill, only talk of tax cuts. The Fed is winding down QEII. Everyone’s tightening their belts (at least rhetorically) when unemployment is still near double digits. Seems to me that Keynes won the first couple rounds but Hayek is now ahead on points.

TGGP April 29, 2011 at 12:44 am

To New Keynesians, I think tax cuts are treated the same as direct government spending. Revenue out > revenue in, any deficit will stimulate aggregate demand. If there are useful government projects that would have eventually been done anyway, you can also get their benefit while taking advantage of lower borrowing costs.

AlanW April 28, 2011 at 1:36 pm

Edit: No new stimulus only talk of spending cuts.

Nick April 28, 2011 at 1:50 pm

I’d like to see one of these where Keynes’s lines are written by someone who thinks Keynes was right.

Greg Ransom April 28, 2011 at 2:03 pm
Silas Barta April 29, 2011 at 11:47 am

Great job cutting the black guy’s part out of the lyrics, racist.

Barkley Rosser April 28, 2011 at 2:15 pm

Greg,

I see you got thanked. Were you the one having Keynes supporting central planning even though he praised Hayek for his Road to Serfdom critique of same?

Not surprising that Tyler likes it, given that it was co-sponsored by Mercatus.

Despite some flaws in the text, it is hilarious to watch. Pappola (sp?) is mighty believable as Bernanke (or a Bernanke look-alike stand-in), and Ed Stringham eagerly interviewing “Keynes” at the end is a hoot.

Greg Ransom April 28, 2011 at 3:45 pm

Favorite part — Munger with a rubber glove.

2nd favorite — Keynes banking wrenches as 1940s cars drive by in the background

Chris April 28, 2011 at 2:42 pm

First one was way better.

Aaron April 28, 2011 at 2:57 pm

I liked the lyrics – the visuals, on the other hand, seemed to play into an Austrian school victimization narrative centered around the idea that since Government makes the decisions, and Keynes supports Government, Keynes always wins – regardless of the merits of the arguments.

This overshadows one of the really important points in the video – Hayek never actually answers Keynes’ question about what one does with the unemployed, instead simply expressing faith that without Government to provide perverse incentives, they’ll figure it out, and everything will be great. To be fair, in the end, both arguments rely an awful lot on faith. But were I confronted with a choice where one alternative was a plan, even with obvious flaws, and other alternative seemed to be “do nothing,” predicated on faith that it would work, I think I’d go with the plan.

I also think that too great an attempt was made to cast Keynes’ position as “any and all government spending in a crisis is a Good Thing,” including simply the funneling of money to cronies of officials. I seriously doubt that Keynes would support such naked corruption in the name of “fiscal stimulus.”

Greg Ransom April 28, 2011 at 3:39 pm

Barkley — guessing I was thanked for spreading around the donation drive information.

Or for the “High Explosives” bit.

I’m not the person you falsely imagine me to be, Barkley. Like many who constantly attack me (or Hayek), you seem to live in a world of imaginary phantoms.

My pre-release concern posted at Cafe Hayek is that Hayek’s actual positions on what do to about beyond productivity norm deflation would be misrepresented (Hayek supported both monetary & fiscal measures — and partly for humanitarian reasons even supported public works projects). But this concern seems to have been at a degree of specificity below the level of generality of the content of the rap, which is fine.

Barkley writes.

“I see you got thanked. Were you the one having Keynes supporting central planning even though he praised Hayek for his Road to Serfdom critique of same?”

k April 28, 2011 at 4:27 pm

no one finds this inconsistent?

“I want real growth, not a series of bubbles
stop bailing out losers, let prices work”

it seems to me – without any background in all of this – that the Hayekian perspective is perhaps more wise, but the Keynesian perspective is more useful.

Let us not forget that Keynes had a very powerful view of people as being full of blood and muscle – Akerlof makes this point forcefully in his work on norms in macroeconomics – and so could not view the economy as an “engine” as it is being portrayed. Or if he could, then it doesn’t make sense.

marwan April 28, 2011 at 5:42 pm

Ah, so this is how the high production values are paid for: http://mercatus.org/charles-koch

Cliff April 28, 2011 at 8:44 pm

I hope not, considering they heavily solicited donations from their blog-readers.

David Mershon April 28, 2011 at 8:34 pm

That made my day.

TGGP April 29, 2011 at 12:37 am

When are they going to bring in Milton Friedman? I believe Hayek once said he was closer to Keynes than he was to Friedman, so it would be fun to see the two friends/opponents close ranks against an upstart.

MrV May 1, 2011 at 7:20 am

@Aaron,

Isn’t that the point, the political incentives are always ‘to do something’ (bailouts, stimulus, etc), whereas ‘to do nothing’ would take too much courage and therefore is the road less travelled

Comments on this entry are closed.

Previous post:

Next post: