Claims about Italy and its immigrants

Nonetheless, 75% of immigrants integrate into the majoritarian culture over the period of a generation. Interestingly, we show by counterfactual analysis that a lower cultural intolerance of Italians towards minorities would lead to slower cultural integration by allowing immigrants a more widespread use of their own language rather than Italian in heterogamous marriages.

That is from a new NBER paper by Alberto Bisin and Giulia Tura.


You have to go to school to learn this? That cultural intolerance encourages integration, and bilingual education and the thousand other dopey liberal ideas that Tyler loves encourage separatism?

Bilingual education, as it's done in the US, is used to fast-start other language speakers in other subjects (math, history, whatever) as you also teach them English.

No one comes out of the US system with an inability. Though they commonly do come out with an ability to mix languages at will throughout a conversation.

That is BS, but expected from you.

Where do you live? Here in California I can speak English to anyone. Though I sometimes like to puzzle out an order, para llevar, fully in Spanish. Or ask for the pho dac biet with enough pronunciation that they actually understand me.

California. Bilingual education actually slowed adoption of English by immigrant children. I believe it is no longer required in CA schools. Unless the kids live in a Spanish speaking community, they pick up English rapidly with little additional help.

Bilingual education is bad for kids but good for bilingual teachers. The bilingual requirement lowers the quality of teachers because the set of teachers that are bilingual is smaller than the set of English only or English but non-Spanish speaking teachers.

However, it has never been about the kids.

That's new goalposts. I said I can speak English to anyone. Now you just say "slowed."

Relative to what?

And how does the counterfactual (no Spanish in math time) affect other learning, in say math?

We don't need bilingual education and Californians all but eliminated it via prop 227 in 1998.

We never had nor needed bilingual education until activists demanded it for Latin American immigrants. The people soundly rejected it.

All you other silly question and proclamations are irrelevant.

I am not going to blunt my pick on that stone (you).

Why so angry, EdR? Take some oxy, it'll brighten up your day!

...CA all but eliminated bilingual education. I guess now the immigrants there are much better integrated? Mission accomplished?

' and bilingual education'

The Swiss likely don't care much about the 'thousand other dopey liberal ideas that Tyler loves,' but would likely point that learning and speaking multiple languages does not encourage separatism in Switzerland.

But it does seem to encourage separatism in the country that hosts the headquarters of the EU, Belgium.

That's completely wrong. Most Belgians I know speak many languages and move from one to another fluidly. This is more true of Flemish Belgians than French Belgians, but they regularly go in and out of French, Flemish, German (all spoken in Belgian, by Belgians) and English. Multiple languages just give more options.

Multiple languages can result in people wanting to protect their dominant language and culture like the Flemish Movement ( As a result the Belgium "government" is a chaotic mess.

As a result the Belgium "government" is a chaotic mess.

Because Belgium's pretty much a non-country, as Nigel Farage said. Time for a velvet divorce between Flanders and Wallonia.

Nigel Farage is a buffoon and quoting him makes you appear as one too.

If Belgium is not a country, neither the UK =)

Is Italy not so evil and unjust (as is America) that it deserves to be deconstructed/fundamentally transformed?

On the bright side: They (illegal aliens and Muslims) Vote Democrat And Islam Is Right About Women.

Boomers quoting 4chan memes.

What a year.

You misspelled "whoa".

Just read the abstract. It is silent on the effect of the number and concentration of immigrants in the host population. Numbers matter.

One immigrant family of four in a town of 10,000 is not the same as 140,000 immigrants in a city of a million (about 14% of the current US population is foreign born, about 11% in Italy).

And some general context - 'Immigrants today account for 13.6% of the U.S. population, nearly triple the share (4.7%) in 1970. However, today’s immigrant share remains below the record 14.8% share in 1890, when 9.2 million immigrants lived in the U.S.'

And this provides a bit more information when looking at languages - 'By region of birth, immigrants from South and East Asia combined accounted for 27% of all immigrants, close to the share of immigrants from Mexico (25%). Other regions make up smaller shares: Europe/Canada (13%), the Caribbean (10%), Central America (8%), South America (7%), the Middle East (4%) and sub-Saharan Africa (4%).'

However, at least the U.S. has historical experience in dealing with this situation - 'More than 1 million immigrants arrive in the U.S. each year. In 2017, the top country of origin for new immigrants coming into the U.S. was India, with 126,000 people, followed by Mexico (124,000), China (121,000) and Cuba (41,000).

By race and ethnicity, more Asian immigrants than Hispanic immigrants have arrived in the U.S. in most years since 2010. Immigration from Latin America slowed following the Great Recession, particularly for Mexico, which has seen both decreasing flows into the United States and large flows back to Mexico in recent years.' Can you say 'yellow peril' Just like back in the good old days of 1890?

The record immigration of the late 19th and early 20th centuries in the US was promptly followed up by heavy restrictionism from the 1920s all the way until Ted Kennedy (famously the progeny of the first wave of immigrants) reopened the floodgates in the 60s.

One wonders if the critical mass the immigrants of the 1800s failed to achieve to prevent further migration is present in the US now. The current immigrants certainly have the descendants of the last ones on their side. Assimilation indeed.

until Ted Kennedy (famously the progeny of the first wave of immigrants) reopened the floodgates in the 60s.

The primary promoters of the legislation were Emmanuel Celler and Philip Hart. Kennedy had been in the Senate for all of two years and change at that point. The 'lion of the Senate' humbug was manufactured a generation later. Kennedy's signature issue ca. 1979 was national health insurance; his plan never made it out of the subcommittee, and he was chairman of the subcommittee. After a half generation in Congress, he was still an ineffective legislator.

While we're at it, Irish, German, and Scandinavia immigration was the mode between 1840 and 1890. The valves were closed in 1924 after a generation or more of immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe. There was no shortage of patrician Irish Catholics in 1924.

By this logic if only the Wampanoags had been nicer the Pilgrims would have adopted their language and culture.

The anti-Antiracism crowd is out in force this morning.

Meanwhile we actual anti racists continue to move forward. An interesting proposal from a prominent anti-racism scholar at AU.


Broken link. Fixed.

Saying out loud that you have seen in the data that group X has 25 points less of IQ shouldn't be unconstitutional.

Ladies and gentlemen, the Trump Party.

Anti-anti-racism? What are you for?

Is It At War With Reality?

A political party so stupid as to call 65 million voters "racists" is too stupid to govern.

People listening to 16 year-old children screaming "Climate Change!" "Fascist!" "Guns!" “Racist!” aren’t intent on rational discussion.

Gentlemen, The Democrat Farty.

We are for justice. A Department of Anti-Racism has the potential to correct for the true founding principle of the United States. 1619 project much?

Greta did not yell nor scream. She pled. Pled for sanity. One side is detached from reality. I’ll give you a hint, it’s the side defunding science, attacking anyone who opposes racism, and believing the world is 6,000 years old.

I watched Greta's distraught rant. She has been diagnosed Asperger's, GAD, and OCD. The poor kid is a mess and the warmunists exploited the poor girl. The warmunists are shameless, child abusing idealouges. For shame!

The overall 25-point deficiency is not trivial, but actually, there is more IQ variance among libertarians than between libertarians and normal people.

Amusing troll and answers.

Whites are waking up and realizing that "anti-racist" really just means "anti-white". Discriminating against whites in the workplace or college admissions, demanding reparations from them, attacking them for defending against black crime... that's all common and acceptable "anti-racist" behavior.

Look into who is behind "anti-racism". It's funny how these organizations, like the ADL and SPLC, are all run by citizens and supporters of Israel, which has apartheid-like racial policies. Why don't the people telling me how great diversity is want it in their own country?

Maybe that can be another amendment. May as well bundle them all together. It'll be like the Bill of Rights, except instead of explicitly guaranteeing freedoms for all Americans, it'll explicitly restrict them. I'd say it's just like the Founding Fathers intended, but those old fogeys were a bunch of slave-owning racists anyway, so what do they know about the Constitution?

The most interesting part of the anti-racism amendment is that the metric for racism is not actual racism, but disparate impact. If nothing else I guess we'll finally eliminate the blatant anti-white racism found in the NBA and the hip-hop industry.

And finally eliminate the pro-white legacy scheme at racist Harvard.

You mean pro-(((white))). God's chosen people are just 2% of the population yet comprise 25% of Harvard undergrads. When is the social justice crowd going start talking about their privilege?

We would never let them. We control the media, remember? And the banks. We can cut off your money and your airwaves any time we want. Too bad your boy Adolph couldn't finish the job.

Pretty perverse clips today.

Keep the troll, remove anyone who recognizes it as such.

Maybe you ought to introduce an amendment banning trolling, that ought to fix the problem.

Two Italians find that Italians exhibit "substantial.... intolerance towards immigrant minorities," then argue it is good for immigrants because it incentivizes them to learn Italian. ("Interestingly, we show by counterfactual analysis that a lower cultural intolerance of Italians towards minorities would lead to slower cultural integration by allowing immigrants a more widespread use of their own language").

Some 464,000 births were registered in Italy last year – the lowest on record, ever. With around eight births per 1,000 inhabitants, Italy's birth rate is getting alarming low, according to Francesco Scalone, a demographer at the University of Bologna.
Let Italian die with its people.

But what about the loss of diversity?!?!?! Plus, their food is so good.

Fredos deserve to be extinct like the dodo. #Trump2020 #NoMoreFredos

Progressives are so sweet.

The previous sentence in the abstract seems to have the opposite conclusion: "Turning to long-run simulations, we find that cultural intolerances, as well as fertility and homogamy rates, slow-down the cultural integration of some immigrant ethnic minorities, especially Latin America, East Asia and Sub-Saharan Africa."

I think cultural intolerance slows down assimilation for visible minorities by reducing intermarriage rates. The obstacle to intermarriage is more often unwillingness of sufficient members of the majority culture to marry out, than unwillingness of members of the minority culture. This has been shown through both polling data (consistently showing higher disapproval of interracial marriage among whites compared to minorities) and recent studies from online dating (showing that white women have a much stronger same-race preference than minority women or men).

In the long-run, intermarriage is the best form of assimilation and should be encouraged.

No Libertarian should claim intermarriage and the extinction of ethnic structure should be encouraged by the state. Shades of Chinas weird "genocide by absorption" of Uyghur minorities...

I didn’t say anything about the state (although I would certainly support repealing any laws that make intermarriage harder, whether those are outright bans on intermarriage or immigration restrictions that make it harder for people to marry foreigners). Intermarriage is influenced more by cultural norms than state action, and private individuals can shape cultural norms.

“Ethnic structure” has done more ill than good throughout history and it would be good to get rid of it.

Assimilation is not genocide. Actual genocidal regimes tend to want to ban intermarriage because they view their victims as racially inferior. The fact that China is encouraging intermarriage between Han and Uighurs is good evidence that their policies are not in fact racist or genocidal.

OK, I think that's clearer on your stance and to be fairer to you that's more reasonable, though forced assimilation backed by a state is genocide - when Islamic state uses Yazidi women as concubines and raises the children in Islam, you betcha that's genocide.

Ethnic structure can be for good or ill - for'ex having the Ashkenazi Jews around seems to have gone fairly well, and having humans who are genetically adapted to different climates and diseases and challenges seems like it has been a good through history (we're better off with lactase drinking humans and high altitude adapted humans and the rest of it, than if we'd all practiced such a degree of blending that local adaption was impossible), and on the cultural side, preserving a diversity of languages and approaches has helped avoid disastrous monoculture (which tend to be "too big to fail" and then fail anyway).

Assimilation is out-marriage. If the immigrant group has a lot of cultural baggage or if the women are low sexual market value, then they won't assimilate. You won't get rid of in-group preference unless you find a way to rewire people's brains after a million years of evolution. Hopefully I'm not giving anyone any ideas.

Let's not fool ourselves into believing that all cultures are equally beneficial to the world.

Time and tide have shown vast superiority of some over others. Western culture has given the world extraordinary technological and scientific advancement in a very short period of time. Democracy has brought unprecedented freedom, peace, and stability. Capitalism has brought incredible economic advancement, wealth, and eradication of poverty. Indo-European language and culture spread these values around the world.

Western, Christian ideals did not become dominant by cheating. Ironically, these ideals are threatened more from within than without. Our society has a large, self destructive cult known as socialism that threatens to undo all advancement.


Comments for this post are closed