China fact(s) of the day

Sydney alone has more foreign-born residents than mainland China.

Here is more from The Economist The World in 2020.  From the same issue:

Roughly six out of ten Chinese solo travellers are women.


The new form of nation wealth is ethnical homogeneity. Mixed countries are ungovernable.

Australia is ungovernable?

Just wait until those mainland chinese demonstrations expand into a political platform

The pro-HK, pro-Taiwan, pro-Tibet, and pro-Uiyghur factions will keep them in check. Ethnic Chinese aren't monolithic and can think for themselves just fine. Most however will be apolitical and mind their own business.

The first generation Chinese-American groups’ political platform in the US seems centered around fighting discrimination against Chinese-Americans including being against affirmative action.

The political groups of US-born Chinese-Americans seem focused on your generic progressive causes.

Foreign policy doesn’t seem like a big deal except to the extent it results in discrimination against Chinese-Americans.

Australia is on fire! But it's a literal kind and not the fire of revolution.

After one generation Sydney will have the most beautiful women in the world.

Eurasian women are gorgeous.

I know the nerds here don't consider such things but, being a brute, I do.

If I didn't have my own Thai sweetie I'd consider emigrating - if Australia would have me, which is not a sure thing.

Subtle signs of lower class etc.

Eurasians have higher IQ and are more physically attractive than the Eurafrican or Eurislam mixes commonly found in the West.

If you don't mind being watched 24 hours a day by machines, move to Xinjiang. The whole population is Eurasian, the women are gorgeous, and the standard of living is surprisingly high.

More to the point, in 2016, 10.8% of Sydney's residents were of Chinese ancestry; it was, in fact, the third-largest ancestral group (behind English and Australian, and ahead of Irish and Scottish).

It seems China is perfectly happy to help other nations realize that diversity is their strength, but not so much to realize that strength in their own land.

We will not hear much from the woke crowd about this apparent incongruity, however.

China: Diversity for thee for not for me!

The common theme for the CCP: hypocrisy and playing heads we win, tails you loose (when they can and too often everyone else plays along for some reason)

I see, hypocrisy. As opposed to preaching democracy and supporting the Saudi regime. As opposed to foster criminal wars. As opposed to betraying one' closest allies!!

I see. Two wrongs make a right. BTW, China has at least as bad a track record in accepting terrible and criminal behavior from its allies.

Or should we get into a bean counting exercise about how many political prisoners are held by the US versus China, not even how many of ear citizens are shot and killed by each of the regimes. Maybe a compare contrast between Tianaman Square and Kent State?

I'm pretty sure you can make all kinds of comparisons between communist China (hell, perhaps even the republic and the dynasty periods) and the USA and find plenty of bad on both sides. But if you compare I think China "wins" the prize for more complaints and bad behavior.

The old couple who own the Chinese restaurant down the road swam from the mainland to Hong Kong in the 60s. I'm sure they're just hanging out for a chance to vote for PM Winnie the Pooh.

They're 5th column. Australia would be wise to limit their numbers and influence and assimilate them as best they can.

No,they are not, and you should feel ashamed of yourself.

Of course they are. Just as the Anglo immigrants to Mexican Texas turned on their country; this had historical precedent. There are numerous examples of ethnic Chinese stealing corporate and national security technologies. The PRC targets Chinese immigrant communities through Confucious Institutes. The first Chinese MP in Australia was discovered to be a member of the United Front Work Department, a Chinese bureaucracy whose mission is to influence Chinese overseas.

Perhaps you should be the one who is ashamed. You sound like a fool.

I mean, slander.

You racists should be ashamed of yourselves.

It does not sound "racist" to me but it does sound correct.

Perhaps we should say that China is colonizing the West; that may help the leftists find their opposition to it.

The obvious difference is that the US was a far wealthier country than Mexico at the time making it in the settlers’ economic interests to become part of the US. There is no historical precedent for immigrants from a significantly poorer country like China wanting the significantly richer place they moved to to become part of that poorer country.

Are Chinese more likely to steal technologies than other groups? People say this about Chinese in the US too, but in reality the vast majority of trade secret thefts according to court records in the US is by other Americans. And there is significant prosecutorial bias against Chinese in such cases; researchers found that Chinese prosecuted for trade secrets theft in the US are over twice as likely to be acquitted than non-Chinese; when they are convicted, they receive longer jail sentences despite stealing lower dollar values of technology. When people make a big deal about Chinese technology theft, it sounds to me like the people who make a big deal about “black crime.”

What about all the people who want to "make America Mexico again", via the return of "stolen lands"?

There is no shortage of immigrants to the United States from poorer countries who resist assimilation. If this is not your precedent in fact, then it is in spirit. It seems, in fact, a good way to have your cake and eat it too: you get to enjoy the stability and wealth of your host country, without adopting any of the customs that enables your host country to be stable and have wealth.

As far as Chinese spying goes, it should be obvious that foreigners ought to receive harsher penalties than Americans; if it is not, then consider the example of an American stealing the technology for a stealth fighter for a rival American defense contractor, versus a Chinese national stealing the same technology for appropriation by the PLAAF.

Of course, in this day and age, it's not guaranteed that American defense contractors won't themselves share secrets with potential customers in China; we can assume Google, for example, has already done this. It's just another of the many absurdities of living in a post-nation.

"There are numerous examples of ethnic Chinese stealing corporate and national security technologies..."

Sure, there are also numerous examples of "ethnic Chinese" thumbing their noses at the mainland authorities. See a big chunk of the population of Taiwan -- along with its entire government -- or the protesters in Hong Kong, for instance.

Maybe not but that may not matter. Pay any attention to the recent news from both Canada and South Korea regarding the behavior to Chinese and their respecting the local laws regarding speech, their engagement in vandalism and physical intimidation of those not toeing the CCP party line?

oh, forgot to add the new from Australia itself -- concerns and investigation into China attempting to get one its moles/agents elected to its parliament.

I doubt it was the Chinese who made America a violence outlier among rich countries.

It's the African-American population.

Whole suburbs in Sydney and Melbourne have become essentially Chinese enclaves. Migrants have always clustered together but the wealth and resources of the Chinese has allowed them to become completely dominant in some areas and their allegiance in a conflict is uncertain. Melbourne and Sydney have become traffic clogged cesspits for all but the wealthy, this will not end well.

Which Melbourne suburbs are Chinese enclaves? I live there so I’d love to know.

Glen Waverley, Box Hill, in Sydney Burwood and Chatswood. You don't appear to be familiar with Melbourne or Sydney.

I have never been to Australia, but this kind of statement sounds like the kind of thing American racists say (Place A is dominated by Minority X when really Minority X is 20% of the population) so I checked quickly—according to Australian census figures as reported on Wikipedia, Glen Waverly is 15% Chinese, Box Hill 27%, Burwood 17%, and Chatswood 21%. So the Chinese are a small minority in all four areas. They aren’t even disproportionately located in any of those places except Box Hill when you consider that the world as a whole is 20% Chinese.

The world as a whole has a PPP of $17,300, and about a fifth live on less than $1.25 per day; I suppose it would not be remarkable then if these conditions were found in Sydney (45th highest cost of living among global cities).

Or maybe we should just relocate 800 million ethnic Chinese out of China, replacing them with a global mix of immigrants. Then again, the world is only 11% European, or 5% American...

Thank you for looking that up, was going to then I came back and saw your comment.

I suppose we can debate the meaning of enclave, but by no means are Chinese Australians the majority in any area. In addition o believe the question asks about descent not country of birth, and also includes both mainlanders and Chinese from the diaspora who obviously do not constitute a homogenous bloc.
Identifying Chinese Australians as a fifth column living amongst us is literally doing the propaganda work of the PRC for them, and I wish people would stop.

So if you call them a fifth column they become a fifth column? Wasn't this invoked with Muslims and terrorism back in the day? And it was tripe back then, too. Suspecting foreigners of foreign allegiances is common sense, especially when there is smoke. The entire history of the world is littered with bad unions, blood being thicker than water and not being able to leave old loyalties behind, especially when you're a few hours away from the homeland.

I'm not saying they can't assimilate, or want to or be good citizens. I am saying that, in the absence of perfect information on individuals, you need to be prudent regarding a whole population. Especially when you are not making any particular effort to assimilate them and are hoping it will happen by osmosis.

There's a lot of brown skinned immigrants in my neighborhood. Thank god. Australians are wonderful people, you just have to watch out for the white ones.

Note: Getting upset about this kind of weak, self depreciating humour is probably the most "un-Australian" thing that is possible to do.

"Melbourne and Sydney have become traffic clogged cesspits for all but the wealthy"??
I have lived in both cities. Traffic is pretty bad for sure, but still, both cities are ranked highly in terms of liveability. At least partially it is due to the money brought by Chinese immigrants. Just look at all the cranes in CBDs and Chinese dominated suburbs of both cities.

As I stated the wealthy don't mind it, they have the resources to avoid the pain.

Well Irish immigrants and their descendants did take over Boston's government, and a good chunk of Massachusetts'. A non-issue, aside from Boston's usual squabbling between Irish, Italian, Black, and waspy Brahmin ethnic groups.

If you want to see foreign enclaves, visit southern California. There are upper-middle class shopping malls where every store and almost every customer is Asian or Asian-ancestry (usually Chinese). As for local government:

Monterey Park, CA's city council is 4/5 Chinese (or at any rate Asian) background.

Westminster's is 4/5 Vietnamese, and the 5th member is Latina.

Santa Ana's is 7/7 Latino.

In all cases, these are non-issues, the "OMG furriners are taking over" meme became passe decades ago in California. (In the 1980s, the all-white city council of Monterey Park passed a regulation requiring signs to be in English. They were eventually voted out; the regulation over-turned; and no, Angelenos do not view Monterey Park as a hotbed of secession, sedition, or foreign influence. it is however an excellent place to go for Chinese food (and sometimes Japanese and Korean too).

Why is it that these types of posts invariably mention the food?

We can use that as the epitaph for the West: "We threw away two millennia of blood, sweat, and tears; but, we ate well doing it."

Because Asian food is superior to cupcakes and Twinkies that pale, portly Westerners engorge themselves to comatose obesity.

Ain't gonna learn no Mandarin.

The low foreign born population in China is mostly because China is a poor country that few people want to immigrate to, not because China has exceptionally strict immigration laws.

I think both claims are rather questionable. It is hard to consider a world power that is on a campaign to finance the rest of the world's development, considered one of the world superpowers economically and militarily, has a large space presence and is a technological leader in a number of cutting edge areas a "poor country". suggests a different view as well. Sort by percent of population and you find China below countries like Haiti. It shows as 6th lowest in terms of % of population; India has 4 times as many. It does much better when looking at % of total foreign born but still is far down the list.

China is a massive country so a low GDP per capita still translates into a lot of money and economic power when you multiply it by all the capitas who live there.

One of the standards for international comparisons of GDP per capita -- Penn World Table -- places China in between Tunisia and Peru in 2011. The World Bank places it as of 2018 in same ballpark as Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Thailand and Serbia. Mexico beats China according to both sources.

So don't believe the hype and remember that having the biggest population in the world almost invariably gives you a lot of economic and military clout.

Sydney is in need of some diversification. How about importing some Chileans?

Chileans have been robbing from guest countries they visited. Their country back home is being robbed by a corrupt and incompetent government, so they turned to this. Theft at home creates theft abroad. No wonder the streets of Santiago are full of anger.

There are quite a few South Americans in Sydney and Melbourne. The trick is to take advantage of the skilled immigrant programs. The first step is to enroll your kids in Australian universities, which charge tuition about A$35,000 to $45,000 per year, plus living expenses. More and more Chinese families can afford that.

I suspect that Australia is encouraging immigrants because they need someone to flush their toilets 10-15 times.

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking to waste water I can tell you we don't have water to spare. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills. Skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you half flush, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you, but if you full flush after only peeing, I will look for you, I will find you and I will fill my toilet cistern with your blood.

David, that's not how immigration works in Australia. It's not a cheap source of labor. The Australian minimum wage is around $14 US an hour. Over $15 US if forced savings are included. Additionally, most of us are capable of flushing the toilet ourselves -- should we choose to do so. Sometimes it goes to a town waste water treatment plant and sometimes it goes to a home septic tank. In parts of Australia Americans are referred to as septics because they're so clean. (Or maybe it's rhyming slang - septic tank, yank.)

If your parents weren't Han Chinese, would YOU want to move to China?

How many people with Han parents born outside of Mainland China want to move there?

China desperately wants influence over Australia because of the unequal nature of their relationship. If trade stops Australia has a recession while China has electricity rationing and possible food shortages. Our government may lose the next election and have to wait a few years to make another go of it, while the current Chinese government may not get another go at anything ever. The history of political change in China is less... gentle.

But China is incredibly clumsy at gaining influence. Have you ever been targeted by a Chinese PR company? Their clue is so small it's unbelievable and the government seems no better. They are so ham fisted. They really should have just spent their money on paying a HK Pop band to tour the country for free. Who doesn't like that? Maybe dressed them in belts and roads. But it's too late for that now.

The same is true for the United States; China needs access to American markets a hell of a lot more than the US needs Chinese goods. Kind of makes you wonder about all those people who have their feathers ruffled about Orange Man's "trade war".

Money is still money and I wouldn't be happy if I was losing it as a result of a pissing contest over trade.

$12 billion in subsidies have been handed out to US farmers affected by the trade idiocy. China has been making up for the slack from buying from other nations, including Australia. But it doesn't really count as a win when the competition has hobbled themselves.

The first one seems to be more of a Sydney fact than a China fact. Other middle-income countries that aren’t next to neighbors of similar culture and size also have minuscule numbers of immigrants; Indonesia and Vietnam are at 0.1% just like China is (

For the second one, one of the few good things about communism was that it weakened traditional Chinese culture, leading to many benefits such as an increase in women’s rights (of course Chinese culture is still sexist by the standards of rich first-world countries; I mean women’s rights increased over what existed in traditional Chinese culture before communism). Traditional Chinese culture was not great and seriously held back (and still holds back) Chinese people’s potential.

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