Jennifer Doleac thread on what works to improve policing

Read it.  Recommended.  And again here is Jennifer’s podcast on related matters of crime, law, and punishment.  Here is her very useful resources page.

Comments

Well, I do like what she is saying. She's pretty open minded about the issue. Which is refreshing.

Encouraging Employees to Create New Games - Always make an effort
to activate your workers to get their particular versions of gaming.

Total points was 27 (24 to a few)If you bet Under 38 ----
you won 11 X your bet. This is fun and you also move being a hologram using a difference - you have your physical
body kicking an invisible soccer ball and you create a goal.

Thanks for every other magnificent post. Where else may anyone get that type
of info in such a perfect manner of writing? I have a presentation subsequent week, and I'm on the look for such
info.

Twitter is not a blogging platform.

Can't stand "long-form" tweets. It's especially annoying when quality content is published via Twitter.

Talk about France - As long as Goenka gives me prize, I'll keep writing for his paper. And I can police the Hindus in India, who talks about Muslims in France?

Can he even kill the King? Who even talks of the Irish?

While Arnault douses himself with more farine chaque matin, whites in France can kill each other rather than the 'harmony' of 'chez nous'. After all, whom do they sell to - les franchouillards?

Haha, that leaves them smelling their own caca, chaque matin!

It’s refreshing: “I don’t care what people said on a survey at the end of some training module. I want to know what they do when they’re back out on the job.”

Caca is refreshing, what a joke!

Some of the studies address the effects on overall crime, but others appear not to. Failing to address potential trade-offs is a major pitfall for researchers and policy-makers.

Better Angels

https://twitter.com/rishmishra/status/1267897022062964736?s=19

I’m sure that will comfort all of the small business owners who have lost their business in the last seven days and potentially their home once they file for bankruptcy.

I mean hey, someone on Twitter said they were offered water. So it’s all okay now.

You bring a lot of negative energy.

Nemesis - they offer water for Hindu funerals. What would the Catholics say?

was an English publisher. Picador - but that was then.

Now we publish on Tyler's blog. Why not call it simply Alex+Tyler+even more?

And their white wives - rather +1

Subrahmanyam S

Duflo - like bande dessinée - BD

Don't read twitter and that cesspool will disappear.

You don't have to like Twitter, but if you want to see things 5 minutes after they happen ..

The future is federated.

Headline of the Year: "Governor Cuomo Orders Nursing Homes to Admit Rioters"

As for improved policing? Wild idea: When they arrest someone who gets convicted, PUT THEM IN PRISON AND KEEP THEM THERE FOR A GOOD LONG TIME.

No? You'd rather just let them out, so the cops have to arrest each criminal 15-20 times? Well.... you are the problem. You certainly have no hope of every stumbling on the solution.

But that was then!

+1 speaking of pants,
check out u.s. rep. j. nadlers pants to shirt ratio!
it looks like nadlers been inhaling gourmet ice cream

How you police and punish is very different if you have 1% doing 90% of the crime, versus 1% doing 50% of the crime.

What most don't like to acknowledge is we have the same people doing the same crimes over and over--something like a 90% recividism rate over 9 years. That does suggest longer sentences would help.

So academics, including Tyler Cowen, have completely surrendered to the anti-white worldview. It’s shocking how easily they surrendered to a the BLM agenda.

I suspect it’s pure cowardice. It’s easier to blame white men and just keep getting your university paycheck rather than tell an uncomfortable truth.

Academics don’t have much social courage.

Tyler surrendered long ago, but the nail in the coffin for him was the 2016 election.

Part of the humor of this blog is seeing if he will ever, ever, ever update his priors. He never does. It's like a slow-motion multi-year trainwreck with him. But more fun.

Not a single link or reference on this lady’s site or tweet-feed explains why she takes as “given” police racism or excessive use of force.

Waiting for someone to point me in the right direction...

Oh come on.

Jesus Christ, conservatism is about recognizing abuses of power. Libertarianism is about recognizing abusing of power. I am a lifelong conservative. Your comment is just blantant racism. You really cannot see the issue with police brutality? What's the uncomfortable truth here?

I'm not saying black people don't have cultural issues that need to be addressed (which do, by the way, stem from centuries of racism but I digress. They do need to take responsibility for their own future). I am fully comfortable admitting that having grown up in a black neighborhood.

And yet, the actions taken by the police officer here were entirely unnecessary and outrageous. George Floyd wasn't firing weapons. He was just lying there. And there is a pattern of violence.

So the spate of violent crimes overwhelming committed by black people has everything to do with black culture but the overwhelming instances of violence committed by police has nothing to do with culture of these departments? Come on.

Trump's best off admitting the officer was at fault and then suppress the riots.

Can you please for the love of god point me to a study or show me data about how “there is a pattern of violence”? I want to be on your side so I don’t have to consider myself racist, but I need evidence to reject the null hypothesis.

Let's not play dumb here. There is documented pattern of racial bias - and violence - in the Minneapolis police department. It has been pointed out and targeted - openly - by the last two mayors and the last two police chiefs... without success due to the ingrained police federation. This is no secret. The civil rights complaint filed today by the State of Minnesota against that department will once again document that pattern and is expected to end in enforceable consent decrees.

So I ask again... can you point me to a study or data to support this? Prefer at the nationwide level.

They never will. The stats do NOT paint a pretty picture. Violent crime statistics showing perpetrators and victims are readily at hand all over the web. If you want cops to bring down crime, they will NOT be targeting everyone equally. They go to the where the crime is and interact with a community where that behavior is simply tolerated and sometimes celebrated.

The last of the good people in those communities will end up leaving and it will become "an opportunity zone" that no one will likely invest in for a generation.

These police forces will have greater percentages of minority membership and leadership, but the problem will still remain and grow because no one will want to actually address the criminal element.

Over 50% of blacks grow up in a single parent household and are raised by a person who is also the product of a single parent household. Those numbers have been increasing since the 1960s. You raise generations of young men without fathers and there will be serious problems for that community.

How much more money, effort and human talent do we need to throw at this "community" before we realize that the community itself needs to acknowledge that they have a problem and that they need to change?

Unfortunately, it's easier to just throw more taxpayer money at the problem with better trained cops, teacher, social workers, child protective services, etc., as well as, virtue signal on social media and "hope" that the results will change.

Your comment is just blantant racism. You really cannot see the issue with police brutality? What's the uncomfortable truth here?

It is not surprising that Identity Politics on one side of politics results in Identity Politics on the other. The Left hates White people and have a radically anti-White agenda. What sort of response do you think that will produce?

Where is the issue with police brutality? The police were not brutal in this case. At best they were neglectful. If you do not want to be put on the ground in cuffs, do not resist arrest. They did not whale on him. They did not shoot him. They did what their manual told them to do.

The uncomfortable truth here is that if you are a White man and you do your job exactly as you are told to do it, your Liberal White superiors will turn on you in a heart beat if there is some political heat flowing around. In a microsecond.

I'm not saying black people don't have cultural issues that need to be addressed (which do, by the way, stem from centuries of racism but I digress.

Blaming White people? That is not what the previous poster said? A radically anti-White agenda? Seriously? What is the evidence that any of the "cultural issues" in the Black community stem from racism? Why is it unacceptable for you to acknowledge the huge effort Whites have put in to redressing the past and moving away from racism? And the fact that these have had virtually no effect whatsoever?

And yet, the actions taken by the police officer here were entirely unnecessary and outrageous. George Floyd wasn't firing weapons. He was just lying there. And there is a pattern of violence.

There is a pattern of violence. Floyd had a long history of violent felonies. He was on two sorts of drugs - one of which makes people angry, violent and insane. He weighed 200 pounds. He worked as a night club bouncer. He was resisting arrest. Just how much force do you think is acceptable when he resists arrest? By all means, explain to me just how you, personally, would handle this man? Or do you think that arrest should be like a play date and if someone gets bored, they should be allowed to walk away?

The police actions look entirely proper and by the book to me. They had a large violent man resisting arrest. They did not Rodney King him. They put him in cuffs, they put him on the ground, they held him down so that he could not hurt himself or others. Exactly as the book told them to. It is unfortunate that he had a pre-existing health condition and seems to have been taking drugs. Who could have known?

So the spate of violent crimes overwhelming committed by black people has everything to do with black culture but the overwhelming instances of violence committed by police has nothing to do with culture of these departments? Come on.

Well yeah. There is not a lot of violence directed at African Americans from the police. From other African Americans? Sure. But not from the police. Who do not kill many people. They do not kill many little old women of any color. They did, in this case, do something that resulted in the death of a very large, violent man on drugs. Now is that the fault of the culture of the police department? If they have a "police should not be beaten to death" policy, I guess it is.

Trump's best off admitting the officer was at fault and then suppress the riots.

Where is the fault?

"very large, violent man on drugs"

Let's use a basic definition of racism. Racism is defined as treating people different depending solely upon race. The automatic characterization of George with that is textbook racism. Maybe he actually is. And, for what I can see, is there is no evidence George was on drugs. And for cops to assume black people in general exhibit those traits is racist.

Is it textbook to hold people down on their neck until they suffocate? Really? And sure, he initially resisted arrest, but after he seemed fairly compliant.

And you focus on the violent acts of George but the officer in question was cited 11 previous times for aggressive behavior. 11 times!

Google "floyd fentanyl meth" ... he was definitely on drugs.

Also I'm pretty racism is defined as a belief that one group of people is inferior due to the color of their skin. Or else speaking Spanish to Mexicans would be racist, per your definition.

Let's use a basic definition of racism. Racism is defined as treating people different depending solely upon race. The automatic characterization of George with that is textbook racism.

I am impressed by the utter shamelessness of this. Really I am. I mean, you can tell you do not give a damn about racism really because you are so quick to turn to such a cheap and cynical exploitation of the issue. There was no racism in my post. Everything was factually true. As you seem to concede.

And, for what I can see, is there is no evidence George was on drugs.

You know, apart from two medical examiner's reports. Two.

And for cops to assume black people in general exhibit those traits is racist.

Indeed. For some reason I feel a Samuel L Jackson moment coming on. By all means, what does Marcellus look like? It is racism to say he was a rather large man?

Is it textbook to hold people down on their neck until they suffocate?

They did not hold him down until he suffocated. They held him down. He had a heart attack. There is no obvious link between the two.

And you focus on the violent acts of George but the officer in question was cited 11 previous times for aggressive behavior. 11 times!

He was written up 18 times in 19 years. One of those was for an actual real shooting. The rest appear to be using bad language in front of the public. The horror.

Chauvin seems to have been an entirely decent police officer.

It may be time to realize that conservatives and 'libertarians' stopped caring about abuses of power a long time ago. They only care about 'pwning' the Libs.

Seriously, That's the only unifying consistent thread for them.

Projection is so cool isn't it? I have enjoyed the Left embracing every single Republican position just because Trump differs from it. The TPP? Suddenly neo-liberalism in international trade is the best! NATO? They are all for it. Russian conspiracies? They used to be left to the John Birch society.

Now we see the Left going, in a split second, from shaming gun-toting Tea Party types for protesting lock-downs as neo-Fascists who will not use masks thus killing babies, to endorsing America's Kristallnacht and the hood wearing Stormtroopers doing it as the moral equivalent of the minute Men.

Just spectacular.

But the real point is that there is no abuse of power here. Unless you are a hard core libertarian, there will be police men. Unless you believe in no state at all, they will have to arrest people. Some of those people will resist arrest. Some times a degree of force will have to be used. With luck, as in this case, it will be minimal. But whatever happens, some people will die resisting arrest because it is impossible for police officers to foresee every possibility and still do their job.

The Democrats in Congress signing off on trade deals to free capital while destroying labor, or sending another $1 trillion to banks, or extending the Patriot act are not "the Left."

As to the police state: like I said, no serious person can contemplate policing in the USA without alarm and then pretend to give two sh*ts about freedom.

Putting your knee on a man’s neck for 9 minutes when he’s already handcuffed on the ground is absolutely an abuse of power, Shark. More so when video evidence shows he wasn’t resisting arrest.

George Floyd was 6 feet 6 and weighed 250 pounds. He was resisting arrest. He was a felon who did serious time for robbery with a deadly weapon.

He wasn’t an angel. Who’s going to protect us, you and Tyler Cowen?

I hope you’ll work to get this police officer a fair trial.

You are a detestable fascist. There are no other words for your abhorrent position.

Pointing out facts and hoping for a fair trial are “fascist“?

I don't see the abuse of power. He refused to get into the police car. I assume that you have never tried to wrestle a 200 pound night club bouncer on drugs into the back seat of a car. I assume they were waiting for a paddy wagon to turn up - they can throw him in the back of that.

What do you think they should have done while waiting for it? Let him get up and hurt himself and others? By all means, explain to me what you are supposed to do with a violent felon on drugs who is resisting arrest while waiting for someone to come and pick him up. Let him go? Play checkers? What?

"I assume they were waiting for a paddy wagon to turn up - they can throw him in the back of that. What do you think they should have done while waiting for it? Let him get up and hurt himself and others?"

LOL, I suggested before that people commenting about the "threat" posed by George Floyd lie face down on the ground, pretend their hands are cuffed behind their backs and try to get up. If you are allowed to roll over on your back, encounter zero physical resistance and are generally in good physical shape, you may be able to get back to your feet. If someone with very average strength and martial arts skills is holding you back and shoulders down on the ground and preventing you from rolling over, good luck. And previous footage shows that when George Floyd was seated on the side of the road in handcuffs, he needed an assist from the officer to get back to his feet. This suggests -- and the cops would have been well aware -- that he was not some superior physical specimen capable of swift, ninja-like moves but was rather someone who should have been easy to control once he was cuffed and on the ground.

LOL - maybe if we move Heaven and Earth we can protect every coked-up violent felon from getting himself killed when resisting arrest. But it's hard to protect every last knucklehead out there.

Where are the threads on how to reduce crime? pretty sure we do that and the policing issue fixes itself

I solved the crime problem two posts up.

Speaking of better angels, GWB

https://www.wivb.com/news/national/george-w-bush-issues-statement-on-brutal-suffocation-of-george-floyd-it-is-time-for-us-to-listen/

As I said a couple days ago, we should channel Mr Rogers, and look for the helpers.

And not those looking to puff up conflict, to make things even worse.

And now a former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/american-cities-are-not-battlespaces/612553/

Tyler, you might have feared that the church stunt would have the wrong impact, but it's clear now that someone "overextended his lines."

> american-cities-are-not-battlespaces

When you see burning cars every few blocks, then by definition the city is a battlespace. When you are seeing it get worse every day, then by definition you are losing the battle.

Do you prefer a city that is totally destroyed, or bringing in trained forces that can stop the burning?

When there are a few burned cars in the country, and you call them every few blocks, implying in every city, you sir are inciting violence.

Parts of LA *are* a war zone right now. That doesn't mean the entire country is. Stop arguing in bad faith

I'm not seeing that.

Yes, because Newsom declares a state of emergency and calls in the national guard all the time, eh? While smoke and tear gas hug the streets. This hasn't been in seen in LA in since 1992. Nothing to see here. Same with NY. In 10 years, this won't even be remembered, right?

As if your TDS is channeling Mr. Rogers. “They called me mad. They called me insane. They called me looney. They were right!”

You had trouble with those readings, did you?

Another reading,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/06/02/secretary-esper-you-violated-your-oath-aiding-trumps-photo-op-thats-why-im-resigning/

None of your articles has anything to do with the topic of empirical work on improving policing. Mr. Rogers knew that it was polite to stay on topic, but your TDS induces you to derail the thread time and time again. “They called me mad. They called me insane. They called me looney. They were right!”

This is definitely about policing:

"NEW: Pentagon officials say it was the White House, not the Defense Department, pushing for military might in the streets—with Trump seeking details on “tanks” that could be used."

While a noble effort, I keep remembering that policing, like so many activities is a moving target. When the cops change behaviors it takes a while for a new equilibrium to emerge. Just like with insurance companies and hospitals, you can find a lot of short term solutions that fall apart once adversarial relations lead to gaming of the system and active subversion.

By the time we have enough data about what "works", we will be well into a new generation that has differing habits from previous police and criminals. I mean imagine the best 1950s advice for dealing with criminals: talk to their parents, have them counselled by a minister, have them join the army. All of these appear to have worked back then, but they are not even in our discussions because parents are MIA, the army is now a bunch of well trained and highly disciplined professionals, and the clergy are rarely well respected.

Crime, policing, and the like are problems with dynamics that are generational in timescale. RCTs are only good as far as you can generalize them with validity; anything 10 years old is ancient for the criminals and of waning utility for the cops. By the time you conceive, test, replicate, and build out … you are already outdated.

We in the engineering community use the phrase "continuous optimization," as opposed to one and done.

Or "continuous process improvement."

All for Alex, Tyler & More. Thank you!

The Blacks but we are all together in it, my friend. Never mind!

Can someone provide a study that shows why the author "take[s] as given that unnecessary escalation of incidents (e.g. to arrests/violence), as well as racial bias, are both (related) problems in policing"?

I checked all the links and resources and couldn't find anything.

Forget her, she's clueless. Watch an episode of "The Rookie" to see 30 year old 135 pound women with 30 pounds of gear outrunning a 20 year old male that is 6' and 160 pounds that was a sprinter in high shool. In episode after episode the 135 pound women catches up to, tackles and cuff a perp in 15 seconds.

Meanwhile, their male officers all watch in admiration with confidence they know she can do it, and then they say "Great job" when she comes marching back with the suspect. That is what people like Doleac believe could be done IF ONLY they'd try a little harder.

If Jennifer Doleac had to put someone in cuffs that was much larger and heavier than she, a no holds bar fight with punching, kicking, biting...she'd throw out every bit of research she'd ever done and and start anew.

All it takes is money, more services. The research says one thing, higher smarter cops. Higher cops specialized to environments, spend money on the triadic response. We are counting these extra expenses against covid expenses against the already strained government obligations.

Who pays for the weed?

Obamacare. Turn the police into a Choom Gang.

Most everything Doleac mentions is way out at the edges. If you watch videos where things went sideways with the cop, the #1 issue is overwhelmingly this: What do you do when someone won't do what you want them to do? (eg "step out of the car please" or "Put your hands behind your back" or "Take your hands out of your pocket")

You want them to step out of the car and put their hands behind their back. They won't. Now what?

The city council in New York decided that anyone selling loose cigarettes must be brought in. Eric Garner didn't want to be brought in. Four men could not put him in cuffs easily.

To make someone do something they don't want to do in a setting that is suboptimal (crowd with people throwing stuff) without hurting the perp or a cop is borderline impossible. The perp cracks his head back, a cop loses a tooth.

How many teeth should a cop lose per year? How much force can a 5'10" cop apply when arresting a 6' tall man by himself? Or how much force can a 5'4" woman apply when arresting a 6' tall man by herself?

Fundamentally, it should be clear if you disobey a cop, there will be an increasing world of hurt applied to you and you could be seriously hurt. Once you are restrained, if a cop doesn't treat you well, there should be a world of hurt applied to him.

If that contract were well understood, our incidence of police violence would go way, way down.

Today, people seem to believe if they ignore the cop the situation will go away.

As others have noted, if we switched to only hiring 6'3" very fit cops that had college degrees in difficult topics, were extremely personable and could navigate complex social situations with something other than testosterone, then that could work too. But we cannot afford to hire people like that because they could be making $200K/year in sales and don't have to worry about losing a tooth (or worse) every day at work.

So, we make do.

+100

Police and suspects/detainees interact. If as much attention was paid to the behavior of the detainee as is paid to trying to tell police how to do their job, overall outcomes would be improved.

George Floyd was restrained. The violence came later.

Go through the list of unjustified deaths being protested. Read the stories. Only some are arrests. Most of those are post-restraint situations.

Many are completely innocent black men doing what you get to do every day without worry---living your life as you decide. People shot in their beds. People shot in their car while informing the officer, exactly pursuant to law, they had a concealed weapon. People shot in home repair stores for holding a screwdriver.

It makes it easy to to disregard the pain and cost of so many interactions between the black and brown community to concentrate on arrest resistance. We have not even discussed the day-to-day pressure of justified worry about what risk one is taking to live one's life.

No one is ignoring the cop, as you put it. People are trying to focus attention on them.

> George Floyd was restrained. The violence came later.

But they didn't appear to be able to get him in the car. He had been in a car (his own), and fought to not get put into the cop car due to claustrophobia. Was it legit or was it delaying the inevitable and wasting the cops' time?

> Most of those are post-restraint situations.

But many of these turned into post-restraint situations because the original interaction went south. Sandra Bland began the stop with extreme belligerence. When asked to step out of the car, she absolutely flipped out. Ditto with George Floyd. What if George Floyd didn't want to get in *any* vehicle due to claustrophobia? What do we do?

Yes, I agree, for Attiatana Jefferson she didn't stand a chance. Same with (white) Justine Diamond.

> disregard the pain and cost of so many interactions between the black and brown community to concentrate on arrest resistance.

But nobody wants to go to jail. Everyone is scared out of their mind. But I think some understand fighting/arguing will only make it worse. Others believe if they make the officer's life really, really hard, maybe he'll let them go? I don't know.

the message needs to be 1) It has been decided you are going to jail. Save any complaints for the judge. 2) If you do not fight, it will be easy and painless. 3) If you do fight, you will not be let go. 3) You will be met with increasing force that may turn lethal accidentally at a moments notice.

> People are trying to focus attention on them.

Yes, but if someone has a gun and the city council has told them to bring you to jail, why would you fight them? They will take you to jail whether you fight a lot or a little.

Kneeling on a dead man's neck until the ambulance arrives seems to me to go a bit beyond 'trying to get him in the car', don't you think?

Yes, but there are (thankfully) just a few victims like George Floyd each year. Each is tragic. But they all ultimately end up with a cop going to jail for murder.

The vast, vast majority are simple cases where its alleged the cop used excessive force to make the person comply.

How much would you charge to put a fit man in cuffs that was 2" taller and 20 pounds heavier than you? You are not allowed to punch, use a taser or pepper spray. You can only use strength to force his arms into cuffs.

He is allowed to kick, punch, bite, spit, head butt.

If you hurt him badly, you will be sued as a private citizen and potentially loose a lot of money. If you hurt or kill him, you will be tried as a criminal.

I'll pay for $30 per round you are willing to go. I get the youtube rights. I will give a $100 bonus if you get the cuffs on.

Will you sign up for that? Because that's what you are asking cops to sign up for.

Lol yeah fuck that. If I was a cop I'd quit my job and let the morons figure it out for themselves.

Most people understand that.

Many people are also coming to understand that long after the perp is on the ground and subdued and cuffed, the cops have not modified their posture, they are still kneeling on his neck, and with a half dozen cops watching, now ready with guns and tasers and clubs. And still one cop is putting pressure on his neck.

Or maybe the perp died in a hail of bullets, and video shows the cops all lied about what he was doing.

Or maybe they just took their sweet time getting him in an ambulance.

And more and more people are realizign this is a problem, and more widespread than it should be. Not just the take-down; but the time after the take-down. Not just the intitial contact, but the hail of bullets afterwards. And the other cops all watching. And everyone lying about everything.

What changed was video camera phones.

What has not changed is cops realizing people can now prove that some cops are using obviously excessive force, and lying about it.

I am sorry but perhaps I am not understanding your position - you think that if the police have put a very large and violent convicted felon on the ground, and they are holding him there in a manner approved and taught by their Department, that is not fair? That they should let him up to fight again? Potentially hurting himself as well as others?

That is what you think good policing is?

They had him on the ground. They were obviously wondering what to do next. That would normally involve putting him in a police car. Not giving him the chance to start fighting again.

But by all means, explain to me where these police officers went wrong.

Phone cameras are like Wikileaks. The great thing about Wikileaks is that it showed that what American diplomats said in public was actually the same as what they said in private. Unlike everyone else. Mobile phones overwhelmingly show policemen doing their job. As does this footage. The problem being that it looks bad and that has mobilized the "Remove Trump" brigade to try to burn down America to save it.

Keep blowing smoke.

It's not working.

Has anyone interviewed Alice Goffman on this subject?

Short version, Alice Goffman: “This would never have happened if the uniformed white supremacist cops, including the white adjacent Asian cops, hadn’t tried to arrest Floyd for a minor, victimless crime.”

> hadn’t tried to arrest Floyd for a minor, victimless crime.

The cops are automatons. The city passes laws and tells the cops to enforce those laws. If you don't like the laws, vote them out. The laws are THERE because people like you voted them in.

The crime isn't victimless. Floyd purchased goods with the $20 from the store. The store employees came out to try and get their goods back because they realized the bill was fake. They lost $20. Floyd cheated the store owner, and then strong-armed them why they tried to collect.

Passing a counterfeit bill is a pretty serious federal crime. The police and feds go all out after 13 year olds that pass counterfeit money. Same has happened to kids even younger. Google a bit. You'll see it's a treated very seriously by law enforcement, from age 7 to 83.

That you would expect a man driving a Mercedes to not get in trouble for passing a counterfeiting is a bit odd.

Another view on the evidence: “For those who are interested in research-based solutions to stop police violence, here’s what you need to know - based on the facts and data. A thread.“ https://twitter.com/samswey/status/1180655701271732224

> For those who are interested in research...

It also ignore the fundamental point: if the city council tells you to bring in someone that did X, and that person will not let you put the cuffs on, then what? How much force can you use? How many man-hours of police can be consumed in putting the cuffs on? Seattle recently had 7 cops dealing with a druggie in a trashcan for 2 hours. That's a lot of wasted time and money.

The study also holds up Baltimore as a near perfect model. Baltimore cops went soft, and the gang violence rose. In other words, Baltimore cops reduced shootings deaths by 2-3 per year, but gang violence increased by 100 deaths per year.

The cops decided "If I can't be sure to win the fight, then I'm not having the fight. Period." And everyone suffers because of that.

A love letter to an American anti hero.

The shop owner defending his store from looters.

So Seattle is promising: "https://www.kuow.org/stories/12-000-complaints-filed-against-seattle-police-after-weekend-of-protests"

Good ideas, not the dumb 'acab', lets start from ground zero ideas being thrown around.

All these white liberal gentrifiers marching around will see their property values fall (or just do white flight again) once they realize no rational person would want to join their hamstrung city police department if things like qualified immunity and broken windows policing goes away, in addition to getting treated like garbage from the Mayor and its citizens.

Cities may indeed have to loosen standards or spend a lot more of their dwindling coffers if there is too much liability on the police officer. You will get more power hungry, cro-magnon cops/military rejects because of the unappealing high barriers if the pay isn't worth it.

All it takes is one mass shooter and other actual terrorists in their gentrified neighborhood to make them realize how important cops are as US citizens react on fear, whether rational or not. NYC circa 1980s anyone?

Who's treating who like garbage? In Minneapolis the cops are hired and asked to do a particular job. They refused and instead decided to be Rambo mercenary tough guys 'cuz they knew best. Now look what they have cost this city. To hell with them and their 'I know better' attitude. They are wrong, wrong, wrong and the carnage proves it. "Do your job" means "do your job" and they didn't do it. It's not complicated.

> In Minneapolis the cops are hired and asked to do a particular job.

I looked up some numbers to sharpen things here...

Cops have some 50M interactions with people each year (so-called Police-Public contacts). Blacks make up 20% of all contacts initiated by public (iow, they are OVER represented in the calls to police...meaning they aren't that scared of the police), and 11% of police-initiated contacts (slightly below their 13% population numbers).

In 2019, 236 black people were shot by police, 371 white. Of the black people, 152 had guns, 31 had knives, 10 were unarmed.

Thus, of the 5M blacks that were stopped and ultimately killed by the police, 10 were unarmed.

10 unarmed deaths per 5M stops. That's pretty good...you got to admit. I would bet that many die in Home Depot or Disneyland each year, or while riding on an airplane. Our govs just killed 40K in nursing homes and the media claimed they were heroes.

Carrying a knife, mankind's first and for many centuries most important invention, is considered "being armed"? Since when? Knives are tools as well as weapons. The US Constitution, a product of the 18th century, guarantees the right of the people to "bear arms". Not just "firearms", all arms, including knives, if they're to be considered arms. Of course, no sensible man in a wig and buckled shoes would have considered a knife "arms" but there you go. The engineers of the nanny state, none of whom carry a knife or could sharpen one, or probably even own one don't have a problem considering them "arms".

All that about 'white liberal gentrifiers, blah blah, blah' isn't even on point. How a city is run is the decision of the residents. If some guy working at Boeing decides the bolts should go in backwards, he gets fired. Same deal.
You can pontificate about what's going to happen to property values or drug crime or etc., etc. but so what? 'Taint the tail's job to wag the dog.

It's going to be okay, everyone. Some day Etherium will be forked and the new version will solve both our entrenched racial tensions and our war against the China Virus. Believe in Vitalik Buterin: keep calm, and hodl on!

Many of these comments would make more sense under the assumption that they were planted by actors seeking to sow dissension in the mongrel body of Great Satan.

Many of these comments would make more sense under the assumption that they were planted by actors seeking to sow dissension in the mongrel body of Great Satan.

Moreover, I recommend that Jennifer get a job in a big city police department and work for change from within while keeping a journal on how her attitudes change while on the job. Note perhaps whether LEO behavior is in any way related to the behavior of the citizens that they come into contact with.

This thread on data-driven analysis of policing practices that effectively reduce excessive force issues is the best I've seen for those interested in evidence-based work: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1180655701271732224.html

Comments for this post are closed