Why don’t NYPD police officers wear more masks?

While police officers may forgo mask-wearing for any number of reasons, from peer pressure within ranks that are loath to change to a desire to more easily communicate, the images have fueled a perception of the police as arrogant and dismissive of protesters’ health — perhaps even at the peril of their own.

And while several officers have conspicuously knelt down with or hugged people at rallies, the widespread failure to use masks is creating a more standoffish look, one that protesters say suggests that the police operate above the rules — one of the very beliefs motivating the nationwide movement.

“If you’re out here to protect the public, it starts with you,” said Chaka McKell, 46, a carpenter from Bedford-Stuyvesant who attended a protest in Downtown Brooklyn on Monday. “The head sets the example for the tail.”

The official New York Police Department policy is that officers should wear masks when interacting with the public. But in a statement on Wednesday, the department dismissed the criticism about the lack of masks as petty.

“Perhaps it was the heat,” Sgt. Jessica McRorie of the department’s press office said in a statement. “Perhaps it was the 15 hour tours, wearing bullet resistant vests in the sun. Perhaps it was the helmets. With everything New York City has been through in the past two weeks and everything we are working toward together, we can put our energy to a better use.”

“In a nutshell,” as they say, and here is the full NYT piece.  This short vignette reflects two basic truths: first, there is a tendency to see oneself above at least some of the laws, and to follow defined procedures only selectively.  Second, given the resources and constraints put on the table, such attitudes should not be entirely surprising.

Comments

IMO, the need for police to remain identifiable and not a faceless mass trumps.

Let's be real, a surgical mask does basically nothing. And we don't need them out in gas masks and balaclavas.

But its a damned if you do, damned if you don't. If they were wearing masks these people would be bitching about the police trying to hide their identities.

Antifa isn't wearing masks to 'protect the public'.

'IMO, the need for police to remain identifiable and not a faceless mass trumps. '

Which is why they never, ever wear facemasks as soon as the teargas canisters are fired,

'Let's be real, a surgical mask does basically nothing.'

There is a recent paper linked here, with data, showing that reducing infections by 2.3% to 13% is the result of wearing any face covering. One can safely assume that the figure would be higher than 2.3% with properly worn surgical masks considering the relatively high number of cloth masks being used in Germany in later April.

This is why the internet is awesome. In an earlier thread, there was a group of commenters all but accusing the CDC and WHO of murder for not encouraging widespread mask use back in February. Now someone else shows up and, equally confidently, asserts that masks are useless.

Surgical masks certainly reduce the risk of the [especially asymptomatic] wearer from spreading the virus to others -- that's why the medical profession has used them for more than 100 years. See here: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2. The evidence on whether they protect the wearer or not is less clear.

"the internet is awesome?"..if you think useless babble self indulgent narcissism (look at me, look at me) and "augmented reality" are awesome I guess so

Way to illustrate your point there, Surfie.

Not sure if it still holds, but as of a week ago or so the WHO and CDC were saying masks were only necessary for those caring for sick people.

CDC started recommending cloth masks on April 3. Donald Trump even shared their advice: "The CDC is recommending that Americans wear a basic cloth or a fabric mask that can be either purchased online or simply made at home. Probably material that you’d have at home. These face coverings can be easily washed or reused. I want to emphasize that the CDC is not recommending the use of medical-grade or surgical-grade masks, and we want that to be used for our great medical people that are working so hard and doing some job. Medical protective gear must be reserved for the frontline healthcare workers who are performing those vital services."

Safely ignored

What is depressing is how eagerly Tyler jumps on the anti-cop bandwagon. Virtually everyone has accepted that first, this was a racist event (as if people don't kill people for other reasons) and second, that police abuse common throughout all police departments. Neither Tyler nor Alex has questioned that narrative.

"that police abuse common throughout all police departments."

Do we really need to question if water is wet or earth round anymore?

Its nice to see you all missing the point.

I’ll make it easy for readers of the NYT, who don’t seem like a very bright group. Masks are a sign of fear and submission, which you don’t want in a police force. You want confidence and control. The mob feeds off fear.

+1 nytimes.con is using the mask dichotomy to obfuscate focus on the
hundreds of millions of dollars damage and deaths caused by the rioters. we bet the wokemob is even now knitting r. doubthats name into their cancel scarf.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/nyt-tom-cotton-oped-liberalism.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

masks also provide anonymity for arsonists

IMO, the need for police to remain identifiable and not a faceless mass trumps.

So write the badge number in magic marker on the mask. That is even more identifiable than a face, because a person can remember a number, whereas remembering and describing a face is more difficult.

"whereas remembering and describing a face is more difficult."

Not in human beings its not.

Not in human beings its not.

Bullshit!

You ever hear of a police sketch artist??? How long do you think it takes a police sketch artist to make a sketch, based on the testimony of one or more witnesses? (And now think about what it's like if the person is wearing riot gear with a helmet and face shield?)

Now, how long does it take to take to say a three or four digit badge number?

Talk to a human being before you reply!

Since you're obviously unfamiliar, this is how human beings work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2X4Lubyqb2M

>Let's be real, a surgical mask does basically nothing

Demonstrably false. In 98% of cases a surgical mask is likely sufficient. 2% of the time (intubation and similar procedures) an n95 mask is required.

The premise is false ergo...

I think the key is not that the police feel themselves above some petty laws; who among us have not jaywalked or cruised 5 over the limit on the highway? The difference is the rest of us feel everyone is above petty laws, while the cops feel there's a difference between them and the rest of us.

Trust me, I literally have read something like a hundred thousand comments on this web site.

I have seen the faces of angels who have looked at God in all his glory, and I know this --- God loves you all. Trust me, I have never received a single cent for this knowledge, and I have never ever even once gotten a single smile from someone because I told them what I know about how much God loves you. None of that (rewards for knowing what I know) is important to me. Money, smiles, it is all worthless compared to what I know ---

Wake up. God knows who you are, and if you have been trying to do good things, keep at it, and if you have thought you ought to do better, do better.

Trust me. God thinks you are fascinating. Of course you are human, with human difficulties. Don't worry about it. I respect you. I care about the hardships in your life. I know you are human, with human difficulties.

Wake up. Your foolish years have ended, have ended. Your years of wisdom - your friendship with God, who created me - are ahead of you.

If you do not trust me in this moment, try this: imagine you are reading this thousands of years from now. On a day in spring where millions of my descendants are having a good day.

Have a nice day, my friends.

and if you were a "science major" who does not believe in God, well, that is ok too.

Seriously, though, I have seen angels who were looking at God in all the glory one might imagine they were seeing. Look, even if you are a von Neumann fanboy you have to admit that it is likely that even almost all of the most intelligent of us have no idea of whether or not God created us. No idea at all.

Trust me, some of us have seen angels who were looking at God. Tell me von Neumann would have argued with me on that.

Go ahead. You know you can't.

God thinks you are fascinating, trust me.
Everyone is interesting.
Let us think kind thoughts about each other.

Hey Tyler I notice you have a pretty anti law enforcement streak to you. I didn't take you for a limousine liberal but I am not surprised. You probably couldn't stop a fight between two 10 year old girls. Stick to economic theory you come off like a turd.

Look, I know you might be trying to start an argument.

Here is the scary thing,

Epidemiologists with epidemiologist degrees are almost all, if you talk to any one of them, the stupidest scientist you will speak to that day.

The average state governor makes about 200K a year. If you work at Wall Street and you work as hard as an average governor and you make only 200K a year, well, God loves you,but you are underperforming.

Seriously, though, I have lived a long time and i really really wish people would understand what is going on when bad people do what bad people like to do. I understand. Wake up and try and understand. There are enough good people in this world to make this world a good place to live in.

Please understand that there are also lots of people who are losers.
Pray for them.

AND remember this - whether you pray for the triumph of good over evil, or not - whether you care or not ---- years from now, I will have as many descendants living a good life on this earth as there are stars in the sky.

And trust me, if you sincerely want, if you sincerely care, so will you. Once again, trust me, I have seen what an angel looks like when an angel is looking on the face of the Lord ----- and trust me, God loves you so so much, and wants you to understand how this world really works.

And I hate to say "trust me" one more time, but the way this world works is like this ----- either you give a f**k about other people or you don't.
If you don't, trust me, I will pray for you ....

but life would be so much easier if you just understood this -----

Good always triumphs over evil.

You know you care about other people, regardless of whether you dream at night about all those incidents in the past where you cared, or whether you are one of those sad souls who do not remember how much God remembers about how much you cared, when almost nobody else would have cared.

I know how so so much God loves the unloved. And you know too, and if you think you don't, wake up.

Flying a 747 is one of the easiest jobs in the world too. Until things go wrong.
Hey Americans: If you thing the problem is cops not have high enough IQ, pay enough to induce Harvard Ph.D.s to do the job. Tyler, send your application in and then show everyone how good policing should be done.

I couldn’t agree with you more Judy I have made the same argument. Many of these “intellectuals” seem to want a certain kind a cop...one that is highly agreeable and versed in all kinds of academic models of and pretty theories... All for 75k a year working nights and weekends. Change the laws and stop blaming the cops for enforcing the laws the idiots you elected passed. BUT after the laws are changed and when a situation arises and you call the cops and the response is “I’m sorry there is nothing we can do about that” do us a favor and keep your mouth shut and deal with it.

"versed in all kinds of academic models of and pretty theories"

Just replace with "trained properly" and you have it right. The quality of training for American cops is probably pretty high already. The problem is that it is too difficult to fire bad cops. If this changes and if you pay $75k per year, I am sure police departments could attract high-quality candidates.

I am also struck by how young many of the officers who become embroiled in major controversies are. There is an argument to make young people serve an apprenticeship and keep them away from guns until they reach their late 20s. An exception could be made for military veterans with clean records.

" An exception could be made for military veterans with clean records."

I don't agree with this, necessarily. I think that a military veteran is already given some priority in hiring by police departments. If that is so, I can see how this might be the cause of problems. Military veterans, particularly those with combat training and experience, likely come to the job with a different mentality. Those with combat training and experience perhaps have some psychological background that lends to the idea, consciously or unconsciously, that being a cop is like being in combat where everyone else is out to kill you. This isn't to blame veterans but to recognize some of the psychological baggage that many veterans, unfortunately, carry.

On a somewhat unrelated point, I don't understand why there is so much criticism of "police unions" here and elsewhere. It strikes me that these unions are doing what they exist to do---represent the interest of their members. If a union contract contains terms that are not in the interest of the public as a whole (cops are too difficult to fire, etc), that is not the fault of unions---it is the fault of the politicians who sign those union contracts and whose job it is to represent the rest of us. In this respect, our ire should be directed at those who signed those contracts with unfavorable terms rather than the police unions or the cops. Perhaps I've missed it, but I've yet to read a commentary here that blames the politicians for these problems. And yet it is the same politicans who signed those contracts who are now blaming the unions!

The problem is the police union can be more threatening than other unions. If they don't like the contract you offer and go on strike, you have bigger problems than if teachers or garbagemen do. Not that those aren't also problems, but not the same level as police.

This is your defense of politicians not standing up to police unions? Give me a break. Have you considered that they might be giving in, just like they do to other unions, to gather votes?

Uh, no. I was pointing out a fact, about the difference between battling the police and battling other unions. Everything politicians do is to get votes...so basically the voters don't like when politicians fight the police, so that's why it rarely happens.

But this current moment might change some things.

When was the last police strike in this country?

The union assures due process. When did that become evil?

Making the police an arm of the politicians is a recipe for third world police forces.

It’s not a matter of IQ, it’s a matter of respect for the people you are supposed to serve and protect. You don’t need a PhD to have respect.

Honestly... just toss in a course on courtesy at the police academy taught by a local Chik-Fil-A manager and there'd be a 30% improvement in how people perceive police.

Getting paid a hundred grand a year? Plus benefits? Doubling that with overtime?

Oh, and it doesn't matter if you pay enough for Harvard grads to apply if the law enforcement agencies then test for IQ and deliberately exclude high IQ's.

I'm not saying cops are dumb - I'm saying that the upper end of the distribution is deliberately cut off.

No, not exactly, I am someone that understands law enforcement and I find it amusing to read posts by economists who kept their mouths shut about protestors not wearing masks (while some rioted and looted) all of a sudden jump all over cops for not wearing masks. I think it's beyond hypocritical and petty and shows what kind of people they really are. Sorry if my disgust comes across as a Trump supporter. You can be disgusted with people's views and not be political.

You also sound like the sort of person who cannot keep the spelling of their name consistent.

Do you have a recommendation for a good VPN?

The article was pretty anecdotal, so I’ll mention my own anecdotal experience, which is the one time I interacted with the NYPD all officers I interacted with wore masks (I was not wearing one because it was the middle of the night and no one else was around; they gave me one). It hasn’t seemed to me they’re less likely to wear masks than other New Yorkers.

Maybe they are less mask-compliant, I don’t know, show me some data and I’ll believe it, but loath as I am to defend the NYPD, this seems like the NYT, in the spirit of the moment, throwing any shot they can at the NYPD to see what sticks. Maybe they also don’t tie their shoelaces?

So yeah, I’d take this claim more seriously if there were harder evidence and criticizing about the police weren’t the hippest thing to do right now.

“Shot” was supposed to have an ‘I’ instead of an ‘o’ if that isn’t clear.

Beating up on the police has become very common these days. Why, the poor peace officers cannot even go out in public without being dressed all in black and heavily armed, they are so scared of any and all criticism.

See the extremes they are forced to go to now that people are complaining police behavior?

Though this anecdote - on video of course - ir pretty funny. "Thirteen Chicago police officers were caught on video relaxing in the South Side office of Rep. Bobby L. Rush without his knowledge two weekends ago as looting took place outside the door during protests over George Floyd’s death, Rush said.

At a news conference Thursday, the Democratic congressman said he had already delivered the security footage to Mayor Lori Lightfoot (D) and the head of police. The footage shows officers sleeping, lounging on a sofa and talking on their cellphones during the same overnight hours when looting and violence were taking place at the outdoor mall where Rush’s office is located.

“They even had the unmitigated gall to go and make coffee for themselves and pop some popcorn, my popcorn, in my microwave while looters were tearing apart businesses within their sight, within their reach. And they were in a mood of relaxation, and they did not care about what was happening to the businesspeople in this city,” Rush said. “They didn’t care. They absolutely didn’t care.” www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/11/chicago-napping-police-officers/

Video proof of Steve Sailer's Donut Theory.

Why did the city refuse to issue riot gear to police? Have them work 12 hour days with no days off, and expect ten cops to take on a few hundred looters who according to Black alderman were shooting at cops

Seems like people who've basically chosen to disregard the guidance in an obvious and not refutable way don't really have much of a position to complain about police supposedly and anecdotally disregarding guidance?

Considering how Trump has been handling this pandemic, the people at the rally are more likely to buy bottles of MMS than wear masks. America is so screwed. Something as simple as wearing a mask has become a divisive political issue - in the middle of a pandemic that shows no sign of abating in the U.S. 23,300 new cases yesterday is higher than a month ago, and deaths at 904 are also higher. A sustained decline is hard to see concerning a more than month long ongoing plateau.

MMS by the way stands for miracle mineral solution, whose active ingredient is chlorine dioxide bleach. A health product that is intended to be drank in diluted form, not injected. Till now, the FDA has been powerless in preventing its sale as a cure for disease. Strange how that never is cited as an example of the failings of our regulatory state.

By clicking register below, you are acknowledging that an inherent risk of exposure to COVID-19 exists in any public place where people are present. By attending the Rally, you and any guests voluntarily assume all risks related to exposure to COVID-19 and agree not to hold Donald J. Trump for President, Inc.; BOK Center; ASM Global; or any of their affiliates, directors, officers, employees, agents, contractors, or volunteers liable for any illness or injury. https://events.donaldjtrump.com/events/tulsa-oklahoma-rally-june-19

Seems a bit like Whataboutery tbh.

Or extremely FUBAR, regardless of whether one is right or left politically. Each side shouting at each - without masks, naturally - with a disease taking advantage of crowded public events to spread without partisanship.

Trump is throwing a corona party - and he is inviting his supporters?!?

Yet liberals praised people marching around cities in the middle of looting and arson. Amazing

What guidance is that? "2) Advice to decision makers on the use of masks for the
general public
Many countries have recommended the use of fabric
masks/face coverings for the general public. At the present
time, the widespread use of masks by healthy people in the
community setting is not yet supported by high quality or
direct scientific evidence and there are potential benefits and
harms to consider (see below). "

https://apps.who.int/iris/rest/bitstreams/1279750/retrieve

The context of that quote seems to be to prevent infection rather than to prevent transition. And this omitted the positive recommendation to wear a mask to prevent transmission.

Why is the idea of suffering a bit of inconvenience to reduce a bit the risk of infecting other people so controversial?

We all do like our theater, don't we?

Because libtards that's why! No lib is gonna make me wear a mask for a few minutes!

I posted a link earlier to the story from Orange County, California, about the health official who was hounded from office (death threats and protesters at her home) for supporting a mask mandate.

And so she quit and the mask mandate was overturned. This as cases grow. Orange County is not as bad as Los Angeles, but it's not great.

My immediate reaction was that people, and not just cops, or not that smart. They never really understood "R" or why it should be below one.

If I were going to go full curmudgeon, I might agree with 60-something conservative writers, that it is all about a loss of institutions. Particularly organized religion? Perhaps traditional religion.

But the criticism from the left isn't bad either. That is, what was once a sophisticated philosophy of freedom has reduced to

'you're not the boss of me."

we are indeed in a crisis of institutional effectiveness and credibility.

i suppose it’s asking too much for conservatives to recognize this was a direct result of the last forty years of (what passed for) conservativism

Or the past 60-70 years of what’s been going thru our institutions.

Last week you declared most people were "good", this week most people are declared to be stupid fools who need church ministers to tell them what to do. Seems inconsistent.

It seems sometimes to me like the sympathy you have conservatism is almost solely about supporting institutions in keeping majority Americans in line, obedient and compliant to a set of particular moralistic values. But when it comes to these institutions acting as a voice for the American "silent majority" and keeping minority Americans controlled and "in line", a lot less sympathy, if any at all. The fairest stance to me always seems to have been skeptical of them in both roles (or supportive of them in both roles; at least it's consistent).

Some of it might be a mood swing, but maybe it's also true that good people are not always bright?

How many people in these pages concentrate on the freedom, reduced to you're not but the boss of me, rather than the value of R?

Is that because they are bad, or because they don't understand?

Or maybe it's that too many of them catch a little bit of cable news, which loves televised disagreements, but doesn't do the basics of science communication?

See the link to the WHO guidance above. Masks are starting to be the 'religion' now.

At least in Germany, using RKI infection data and the dates of mandatory masking implementation. The benefits are hard to dismiss, at least in countries where the spread of infection was already declining due to their lockdowns.

As for the U.S.? God help it, because it appears pretty much no one else can at this point.

TMC buddy, did you really come here to be the wrong kind of placeholder?

Not sure what 'wrong kind of placeholder' is, but at least I gave a ling to the latest WHO guidance. Personally I don't wear a mask when outdoors or at HD or the like, but wore one yesterday taking my Aunt to the doctor office. Avoid all the places with risk, but I find security threater is no useful. Things aren't black and white. Science! (not the magazine).

Wear them indoors, no need outside. Yes even HD.

"Spoke with a biostatistician today who is deep in covid data and when they were asked if they're eating out on restaurant patios now, they literally laughed out loud."

They then continued by saying "Oh no. Nononono... Are YOU?"

https://twitter.com/dansinker/status/1271217385538756611?s=19

Definitely. It almost seems to call up something deeply atavistic.

I've noticed that people who have the good fortune not to have to do so, are very dismissive of the idea that it is hard to wear a mask while doing actual, physical work all day.

And yet the confrontations are in the supermarket or the drugstore.

(Depending on the type of hard work, you may not need a mask, because you are on your own, or you may need something better, like a full respirator, if you are in crowded conditions.)

Seen on the internet, catching a similar mood:

"I don't think Americans grasp how absolutely insane it is that the rest of the world worked to stop the spread of COVID-19, but the United States was just like, 'Hey, wearing masks and universal testing would be really hard... some people just gotta die.'"

https://twitter.com/mbayer1248/status/1271445305855299585?s=19

And leave it to "anonymous" to spread a BS claim that any sizeable country has done "universal testing".

"L.A. County Coronavirus Update: Highest Single-Day Total of New Cases Since Pandemic Began"

So really stop pretending that what we're doing is smart, or even fine.

More fake news from the libs, no surprise on uber-Democrat Cowen's blog. The Dempanic over basically the flu will continue until November. Then we can stop keeping track of how many old people died yesterday.

Combined with the odd Pauline Kael-esque quality to this pandemic for me and my acquaintance ...

Is there a dashboard somewhere that they report how many died of Covid, and also how many over 75, say, died of other things?

Because once I learned that the dead, or perhaps especially the elderly dead, need not have been tested for Covid to be so coded, it has been hard to suppress a little doubt about these amazingly consistent numbers of dead.

One thing is a pretty sure bet. That is the actual numbers will be higher than currently documented ones.

And as I've said earlier, this will only show up in retrospect when comparing all cause mortality year over year.

Comparing all cause mortality year over year will in an of itself tell us very little about how many people died of COVID because there are all sorts of ways that delayed non-COVID medical care and social isolation are also causing deaths (or will cause deaths in several months).

Oh, and this just in:

"BREAKING: Florida set a record high in daily reported COVID-19 cases for the second day in a row today with 1,920 new reported cases. 29 more deaths and 136 more hospitalized."

As I say, stop pretending we're doing it right.

Stop pretending you actually care about these people except as something that let's you troll here. It's disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself, if you're capable of it.

“Perhaps it was the 15 hour tours, wearing bullet resistant vests in the sun. Perhaps it was the helmets.”

The question is why are they wearing vests and helmets in the NY heat, but not masks? Perhaps individually officers see gunshots as greater threat, but from a departmental standpoint it’s puzzling.. gunshots during protests will not threaten large shares of NYPD, but COVID might (At least temporarily), so it’s hard to see officer/workforce health being the priority.

helmets are actually not great protection against gunshot injuries but they
do protect somewhat from thrown projectiles and other assaults from
violent rioters

Why are Americans treated like children? Because they act like children. Mask-wearing is an example. Americans won't wear them if the purpose is to protect others from the mask-wearer, so Americans are given an ambiguous message about the purpose of mask-wearing. When the president and his staff walked across the plaza to St. John's, the only one wearing a mask was Ivanka ("she cares"). The message was that they are strong, unlike protestors and media who are weak and wear masks. Do police want to project an image of strong or weak? Strong. Thus, they don't wear masks. Trump is a master at communicating an often unspoken but clear message to his supporters. He is the Leo Strauss of politicians. Meanwhile, the NYT (!) writes about mask-wearing from the perspective of those in the media, who are weak not strong like the president and the police, who don't wear masks. Down here in the South mask-wearing is viewed not only as weak but ungodly: Faith Over Fear is the message communicated by the mask-less. And that message, with Bible in hand, was the message delivered by Trump.

Well you know, some of the same people refusing to wear those masks, have been telling us that evolution did not stop 10,000 years ago.

the neat thing about the God-will-protect-me thing is how fungible it is.

covid could have been framed as god’s wrath, punishment for our sins. i believe aids and even a hurricane were framed this way.

so, masks could have been framed as a mark on the threshold, a signal to the angel of death to pass your house by.

but the way the politics lined up here, somebody decided that, on this issue, God is on the side of the no-mask faction.

i’m reminded of the Seuss story about buttered toast

You paint with too broad of a brush. Where I live in Texas, well over half of people wear masks.

It remains amazing that in the discussions of police brutality or excessive force or whatever, that there's been zero discussion of the use of dogs in law enforcement, perhaps the most grievous violation of human rights imaginable on a day-to-day basis in the country. If their use isn't quickly abolished almost anything else that's done is meaningless.

TBH while that doesn't surprise me, I am always surprised folk like ALF or PETA aren't more involved in this particular issue.

Perhaps the mayor should authorize an anonymous poll to ask them.

"Why don’t NYPD police officers wear more masks?"

I was puzzled by this because it appears to me that one can only wear one mask at a time. Contrast with "Why don't more NYPD police officers wear masks"?

Of course, they think they are above the law. For the same reason they park their personal cars on sidewalks and in bus and bike lanes.

#1. So wear the mask and skip the helmet and bulletproof vest.

Maybe they considered the probabilities of harm, which kicks that answer to the exact opposite.

Here's one possible answer: The police don't wear masks because they are mimicking their fearful leader Bunker-Boy who doesn't wear a mask, because he ain't afraid of no teensy weensy virus.

My daughters friend had a birthday party yesterday. The original invite from a couple of weeks ago described driving by, waving and talking from the car, dropping off a gift / picking up a goody bag, all compliant with social distancing measures. When we swung by yesterday there were >50 people there, lots of classmates from school and their parents. It was at least outdoors (beautiful weather), but of the >50 people I counted 6 wearing masks (not counting us), 4 of whom had the mask pulled down under their chin (highly effective usage I'm sure, even at stores I've been seeing a lot of people wear masks pulled down under their nose) and one person was constantly fiddling with theirs and looked like they felt a little awkward. The kids were running around playing, there were drinks and food, people were standing in groups at typical conversation distances (1-2 feet not 6) talking, and it was pretty noisy. This is in a well off neighborhood in the Bay Area, wealthy and mostly high conscientiousness folks, mid-30s to mid-40s, some Chinese expats. I'd take a bet that no one within 1-mile voted for Trump last election. Officially we're still mostly locked down and observing strict social distancing.

Cases have been trending flat to up in the area, but my takeway was that for whatever reason people are done locking down, at least till something dramatic changes, and are at best going through the motions when absolutely necessary at official places, but the social pressure is gone (hell at the party I'd describe the fitting in pressure to be not wearing a mask, I felt awkward wearing a mask and maintaining some distance from people and I was only there for a few minutes). I always figured we'd only get 6-8 weeks of compliance with a lockdown and it looks like that was about right.

If you ever had to wear a mask in an occupational setting you know how uncomfortable it is. It is worse if the risk is small and you only need to wear it occasionally. It all depends on your level of anxiety. My young engineers are in situations where there might be some dust or particles below any level of occupational risk. Some decide to wear masks constantly. I usually don't. Masks make communications hard as well as make it impossible to read someones expressions. For a policeman who needs to be clear in both words and intent, they are awful.

This is the trouble with the COVID stuff in that it quickly left public health and got pulled into the virtue signalling world.

A. There's no reason to, and B. In a scuffle, it'll just pop up obscuring your vision. Actual threat is going to win this one.

That for some reason, the police are able to wear gas masks during scuffles.

Not getting the purpose of a gas mask, are ya?

To protect the police officer wearing it during a scuffle?

That it makes the officer unidentifiable during such a scuffle is just another one of those happy coincidences.

It means gas has been used, or soon will be, so no scuffle going on, just fleeing rioters.

They sure didn’t have any trouble wearing gloves when busting up ACT-UP protests, which was surely less effective and less convenient. But I suppose masks would be respectful to the protesters, while gloves implied contamination, and thus disrespect. The message is clear.

+1 harvard level sophistry
how then exactly would wearing masks not imply contamination?

I visited a hospital recently and faced a problem with the receptionist. He has the sort of measured, mellifluous, Scottish baritone voice that it is a pleasure to hear. But not through a mask and at two metres distance: it was hard to understand him. The visual clues were obscured. And he was far too well-mannered to shout.

Advice please.

Clearly hospital staff should stop wearing masks.

It is more important that dearieme not have to ask for something to be repeated than for health care workers to protect themselves and others.

Repeat and repeat and repeat and repeat. It was a real problem, you arsehole.

"Clearly hospital staff should stop wearing masks." Many of the nurses had obviously reached that conclusion, strolling around unmasked in the concourse.

The only people I saw having to stand and let someone yell into their face from a close distance were the police and national guard. Perhaps they should have had N95 masks but those would be hard to wear in the sun for hours. The cloth masks as the experts explain stop the wearer from spreading droplets so wouldn't be protective for the officers. The protestors are the ones endangering by their insistence of close-range, prolonged, yelling in the cops face.

Actually, the masks can be handy for cops, even cotton ones, when you are deploying the billy clubs to BASH SOME HEADS (tm).

Occasionally, when connecting with a protestor's head just-so, the directional blood splatter can rebound towards the officer's face. The greatest risk is in the downward strike, where a protestor simultanously happens to rotate their head towards the officer, thus placing their nose where their temple used to be just a moment earlier.

And no one wants a mouth full of protestor blood. ew.

This is precisely the reason they should shoot them from afar.

At least 30 NY police have died from Covid. Perhaps 30% have been infected. They are out in the public for the last four months. Maybe they just think they have had so much exposure they aren’t that worried. Compared to having objects thrown at them, cars burned, etc They just had other things on their mind. Perhaps if they were the type that worried a lot about personal safety they wouldn’t be standing in front of hostile mobs

I don't see anyone else pointing this out. Between the number who know they've had it, and some other number who suspect they did, there could be a lot who think that they have immunity.

Combine that with the points about heat and wearing other equipment (in the post), as well as an expectation that they might be engaged in physically strenuous activity and not want to impair breathing volume.

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