Are the ex-royals good enough for Canada?

For example, many of the ways to get permanent residency in Canada require applicants to have specialized skills or high levels of education. Prince Harry trained as a military officer at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, but he does not have a university degree, which lawyers said would be a major stumbling block for him.

“I doubt very much they would apply for permanent residency,” said Sergio R. Karas, an immigration lawyer in Toronto. “That would not be a good option for them.”

From the sound of the NYT article by Ian Austen, they will likely enter as “visitors,” a status for which they do not need additional authoritzation.


It's getting harder and harder to become, like Socrates, a citizen of the world. England has, last I checked, income requirements so that if you fall below I think 20k lbs a yr in income, you can have your foreign-born wife deported (happened a few years ago, in theory). In Greece, all non-Greek citizens, even if married to Greeks, only can apply for renewable five year residency visas. In the Philippines, if you have money, you can stay forever but if you run afoul of any politics or controversy, you can be deported in an instant.

+1. The points system that many countries have sounds like a good idea at first (I mean who doesn't want the best and brightest) but that bar is becoming so high that regular, law-abiding people can't even qualify! The future of people's livelihoods are sadly once again in the hands of bureaucratic whim.

Who knew that all these businesses were wasting so many resources trying to figure out whom to hire? They could have just applied the government's magic point system to determine the "best" hires or, at least, as a screen to create the best candidate pool. Interestingly, the same point system works for all employers, regardless of industry or type of job!

+1. Just let employers hire who they want. Keep the current system but drop the labor certification part of the employment sponsorship.

Oddly enough that income requirement does not apply to EU citizens, so British citizens actually have fewer rights than non-British EU ones (until Brexit and the end of the transition period, of course).

There was one curious legal case of a Northern Irish woman who was unable to get her American husband in. She identified as Irish under the Good Friday Agreement, and thus would benefit from the non-British EU rule, but the court ruled as she had not explicitly renounced British in favor of Irish citizenship, and was born in NI, she still defaulted to being a British citizen.

Ray, Socrates was not a citizen of the world.
He was a veteran who had fought on the front lines for his polis, I will give him that.
But he was a loser with a wife he did not love, and his friends attributed to him many many, many , many (I am no scholar, don't want to be a scholar, but if I were I could give you an exact number) horrifyingly stupid opinions.

But we are all human, and we are loth to admit that even the fake news celebrities among us, like poor little Socrates with his little Spergerville shtick, are not much brighter than the average light bulb.

Ray are you the guy who posts on the genius of Bolsonaro here so often?

what you don't know, Ray, is that his (Socrate's) wife (Xanthippe, Janny to her friends) had a wonderful life, most of the details of which he (poor Socrates) simply did not have any idea about or understanding of.

Back in the 90s I had a good long conversation with mayor of Manila about this very subject, smoking cigars (Cuban, sad to say - I am as anti-Communist as you can get, and I regret those years in the 90s when I buckled under and smoked Cubanos which actual victims of Castro had worked on for so so few pesos per hour) and drinking (the mayor of Manila) very expensive vodka and drinking (me) the humble but nearly infinitely valuable cheap beers from the two great Manila breweries.

Just kidding, I have only smoked a few Cuban cigars, never in Manila, and I have spent much much more than you can imagine of my small earnings on helping the victims of Castro.

No, ray is the boastful multi millionaire who inherited some money, never tires of telling us he’s in the 1%, and lives in the Philippines with his hot teenage gf.


there are so many fascinating people in this world

even for me it is hard to tell them apart.

I thought the Bolsinaro guy and the middle-aged guy with a wife half his age who plays chess at a level something better than patzer but nowhere near as good as me were the same person.

Like I said there are many fascinating persons in this world.

if you are lucky enough to be reading this before it is deleted, yes, Xanthippe was known as Janny to her friends, and they were all in their way- Janny's friends, all of whom knew what a loser poor Socrates was - just as good as any group of friends has ever been. Trust me those were good days for Janny and her friends.

I am no scholar but I remember.

I remember.

You know what? Why don't you just pretend you have no idea what I just said. Go on back to helping your kids ace their AP tests, or go back to whatever it was you were thinking about before you read a comment where someone who belongs to the same civilization as you just spent ten minutes of his time, in the goodness of his heart, to remind you who Janny was.

I remember.

XANTHIPPE is the name you think she had, but her friends called her JANNY.

I remember.

Trust me those were good days for Janny and her friends.

I remember.

So does Pepperidge Farm, but their jokes are way shorter.

The Queen wouldn't qualify either. The points system (Canada, Australia, etc) is fair if nothing else.

Um, she is Queen of Canada too.

Right, and she is the only person who gets to travel without a passport (since all British passports are issued in her name) or a driver's license.

This is definitely my favorite thing about N. America. Visit once, stay for a lifetime! Couldn't stay? No problem! Give it another try.

Ya'll come on back now and "visit" us again anytime!

Are they -ex yet? How quick you are to declare that they are "ex-royals"

The Queen will be mad at you and you will never be able to travel to or recommend restaurants in London again.

As for Canadian civil status, all they have to do is learn to say "about" and eat poutine.

Canadians are more civilized than their southern neighbors. However, the Royals may not visit the United States because they emigrated from England, a country which has harbored terrorists.

They might be over-woke, but they are not naive. They will remain “royal” until they are issued dual citizenship.

Will they ever be ex-royals? It's not not in their blood.

"Are they -ex yet? How quick you are to declare that they are "ex-royals"

Sussex is a royal dukedom so as long as Harry holds it, he is a "royal highness" since he is the Queen's grandchild.

It would take an act of parliament to strip him of being a "royal".

I am by no means a peerage expert but one ought to know a little before making statements like "ex-royal".

'he is a "royal highness" since he is the Queen's grandchild.' Not necessarily: Princess Anne, the Queen's daughter, arranged for her children not to be HRHs - she wanted them to be able to lead more or less normal lives. It seems to have been a successful decision.

Well, if you count winning an Olympics silver medal as "normal".

It is something you can do without being a royal. She is quite a babe.

Mark Phillips was offered a title in 1973 and declined.

Royal styles are inherited by the daughter of a monarch, but they can only be passed down by in turn a son; they can be inherited by a grandchild from the son of a monarch, but not passed down in turn. I think this has been the rule since 1917. Anne's children were never due for a style in lieu of a conventional Christian name / Surname, nor were Princess Margaret's; they all used their father's name. The great-grandchildren of a monarch through the male line have been given the surname 'Windsor' since 1962. When Wm. and Harry were in the military, they made use of 'Wales' as a convenience surname.

Prince Edward's children have royal styles and subsidiary titles and what not, but his mother at his request has directed these titles not be used in any official correspondence. So, his daughter's never referred to as "HRH Princess Louise", she's 'Lady Louise Windsor'.

"they will likely enter as “visitors,” a status for which they do not need additional authoritzation."

So a visitor is a bit like an undocumented immigrant? Would that make little Archie some sort of Dreamer?
Anyway, seems to me like England is not sending Canada its best people.

"but [Harry] does not have a university degree"

Well, look at the bright side: no student debt means he has one less obstacle to overcome in his quest for financial independence.

He has been a ward of the state, she is on reruns. Prime Minister Blackface will protect them until Orange Man exits in 2024

From Alex Huntley, "The Beaverton,"

"On the streets, reactions were mixed among Canadians with some welcoming the fleeing couple, while others feared that Harry would illegally take away ceremonial jobs from hard working Canadians.

"The ribbon-cutting and handshaking industries in Canada have been hit hard leaving many politicians and dignitaries out of work.

“'I’m not against royal immigration, but they can really mess up a neighbourhood, what with their excessive wealth and palaces,' said Stuart Barton of Toronto. 'And they’ll force you to call them ‘Your Royal Highness’ and bring their families with them including that uncle who’s a sex offender. I think they should get out.'”

Har Har Har

Someone needs to ask HRH Harry if that too-skinny, little girl is as "exhilarating" as being shot at and not being hit.

> 'And they’ll force you to call them ‘Your Royal Highness’

In the land of the many mandatory pronouns it is a bit rich to complain about that.

Recent poll: 85% of respondents would vote for Trump if that would incentivize Meghan and her pet, Harry, to stay out of the US.

A Canadian source suggests an alternative:

"Based on her previous TV work in Canada, Markle likely qualifies for permanent resident status under the “cultural activities” component of the Self-Employed Persons Program. If that’s the case, her husband and child could simply apply as accompanying dependants. “I think she has an excellent chance,” said Vancouver immigration lawyer Richard Kurland. “She applies, gets the ticket, they all come in.” If granted, Harry would then be entitled to an “open spousal work permit” — which means no constraints on where he works." — The Star (Toronto)

All of this is merely a thought experiment, though, figuring out which rules would apply if the rules for the little people actually applied here.

Even if they weren't royals, Meghan's BFF is Jessica Mulroney, daughter-in-law of a former Canadian prime minister.

+1 Yeah, really. Anyone who actually thinks these rules will be applied to them is absurdly naive.

Wait, so they won't have to take the ielts or the celpip?
(even people born in English speaking countries have to take one of those English tests to immigrate to Canada)

I remember reading about Canada's points system for immigration way back in the 1970s when the Vietnam war and the draft were still going on. My recollection was that you needed to have 60 points out of 100 to qualify for potential citizenship (or maybe it was permanent residency) in Canada -- and being able to speak both French and English was worth something like 30 points.

A year or so ago I met an American who'd been living and working in higher education in Canada for over a decade. When G. W. Bush won (I don't know if this was 2000 or 2004) a number of people at her university rated themselves on Canada's point scale and joked about fleeing the US and emigrating there.

She took the test or filled out the form or whatever it was, got a good score, and actually did move to Canada.

But filling out the US's income tax forms became more and more burdensome and she finally decided that she'd either need to give up her US citizenship (so she could stop filling out those forms) or move back to the US so she could do just the regular 1040 form. There were budget cuts at her Canadian university so back to the US she went.

About 15 years ago I met an American computer programmer living in Vancouver. He had gotten married to a Hungarian, and it would take far longer for him to get a fiancée visa to rejoin him in the US than for both of them to immigrate to Canada,

Petty immigration laws hurt their countries citizens too, not just foreigners.

As a member of the Royal family, I think that executive discretion could be exercised.

He's worth $50m. I'm not sure how many points that gets you, but how many countries turn down immigrants with that kind of money?

"He's worth $50m." Are you quoting that unimpeachable source, A Journalist? Perhaps the same journalist who claims the Queen is "worth" bazillions.

"Ex-royals" (plural) or "Ex-royal and spouse" ("and [royal?] offspring")?

--or do Brits or anyone else think that merely conferring the title "Duchess of Sussex" confers royal status? (Is the couple's son's status subject to contest or dispute in such circumstances?)

What "royal status" has the former Meghan Markle exhibited or even attained to over the past half-decade or so?

Perhaps we might defer to a verdict coming from actual lifetime residents of Sussex. Another referendum, anyone?

The British aristocracy sending their useless sons to Canada isn't new; they were once called remittance men and every western town had a few of them. Many disappeared in 1914 when they responded to the call of duty and were slaughtered in the trenches.

The Ukraine didn't seem to take pleasure in being sent a useless son of Washington.

It is one of the great lost tropes of the West, they were pretty common in the US West too.

There are fewer than 900 noble families in Britain. No, not every western Canadian town had 'a few of them'.

My initial reaction was that 900 seems like a small number, reminiscent of how the ancient Spartans had a small elite class of citizens who got the full fabled Spartan upbringing and training. Due to their exclusivity and decades of wars the number of Spartiate fighters dwindled -- and so did Sparta's military and political power.

But I'm presuming these families are broadly defined, i.e. not just the Viscount of Visine but also his cousins and extended family? Then there could be easily say 100 people in each of the families, 90,000 total. And if 10,000 of them got sent off to Canada, that'd be enough to scatter around a lot of Canadian towns.

Jesus, these Royals.

(1) Fly to Mexico
(2) Walk across border
(3) Free health care for life

You have an amazingly active fantasy life, it appears.

> Prince Harry trained as a military officer at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst, but he does not have a university degree, which lawyers said would be a major stumbling block for him.

That showed the anti-royal blind side of NYT only looking for answer that suit them. Harry is a trained helicoptor pilot which is in demand in Canada and is qualified for "Express Entry for Canada Residency".

Pilots looking to move to Canada to work under this NOC category 2271 (National Occupation Code In Demand List), might be employed under work titles including:
helicopter chief pilot
helicopter flight instructor
helicopter pilot
Pilots from all over the world are eligible to make an Express Entry for Canada Residency providing they have the right skills, experience and qualifications in their home country.

NYT only interviewed those incompetent immigration agents.,_Duke_of_Sussex#Army_Air_Corps_and_second_deployment_to_Afghanistan

In June 2011, Clarence House announced that on completion of his training conversion course to use Apache helicopters in the war arena, Harry would be available for deployment, including in current operations in Afghanistan, as an Apache helicopter pilot. On 21 January 2013, Harry had successfully qualified as an Apache aircraft commander. He also spent time flying over Sydney as co-pilot of an Army Black Hawk helicopter and participated in counter-terrorism training in Sydney Harbour with Royal Australian Navy clearance divers.

Helicopters are pollution machines and therefore Harry will not accept a position as a helicopter pilot.

Not good enough - you mean unlike the Toronto police's Most Wanted list?

People can't seem to resist it, but surely must realize on some level that this is not a smart game to play.

They should probably just declare themselves refugees.

"For example, many of the ways to get permanent residency in Canada.."

I don't get it. Neil Peart died. Why would anyone seek permanent residency in Canada now?

Because Geddy and Alex are still alive.

The Beaverton is on the case.."Some express fear British man will steal ribbon-cutting jobs."

Maybe they can look for an African country that provides residence permits based on jus sanguinis.

The Duke also isn't good enough for Rio's street market

This is silly. They won't immigrate on the points system, they will use one of the other migration platforms, such as provincial sponsorship. They could plausibly qualify as family-class immigrants if the Queen is considered a citizen; and for that matter, Harry wouldn't even have to file an "immigration" application if that's true, since he would be the born-abroad child of two Canadian citizens, and can simply apply for citizenship directly without "landing."

How does no one seem to view this as an opportunity for Canada to extend royal patronage to itself via royal proxies?

Where and when does construction of Buckingham Palace West begin and how many U.K. tax dollars can the royals sway Parliament to commit?

Canada can cash in on the Royal tourism business by providing them with an annual salary and building them a fancy palace outside Vancouver.

Brilliant. Harry can build out "Diana Land" and the "Invictus Sporting Resort and Spa". With all their princesses they have an edge on the Disney Princess movies too, as they could include "Based on a true story..." in their marketing.

Hatley Castle, outside Victoria, now Royal Roads University, was improved during WWII with the intention of using it as a Royal Residence if the Royal Family fled Britain.

The Reptiloids always come as "Visitors"... don't you have a classical B-movie education?

Remind me why we're talking about loss of unskilled ribbon-cutting jobs again, please? Hasn't anyone read Caplan?

In Canada, if you have a chronic illness you cannot get permanent residency. In fact, you will be deported.

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